Dilemma caused by being cheap.

[megasupermagnum]

Why do you think you need more than +P 38 special? You could switch powders and pick up over 150 fps over Univeral, and never exceed +P. I'm not sure why standard 38 special wouldn't be perfect for you. I would just load what shoots best.

[Petrol & Powder]

I use a .40 cal. bore brush with Kroil to clean the chambers of my revolvers after firing and for the cowboy rifles I wet patch with Kroil and leave wet for storage, then wet patch again and dry bore and chambers before shooting. My guns don't have the "crud ring."

.

/\ Pretty much sums up my world as well. I've never had a problem with the "crud ring",......but I clean my guns.
A brush on a short rod that has a non-rotating handle and a bit of Kroil makes quick work of cleaning chambers.
I keep some 357 mag ammo on hand and occasionally shoot it but the vast majority of my 38/357 shooting is with 38 Special. Even when shooting the 38 Special in the longer 357 mag chambers I never have a problem. I think some people just don't clean their guns.

[mdi]

Yes lightman, I am retired. Not fond of reloading but love to shoot so it is a means to an end...getting cheaper ammunition. I load on a 1050 for a reason....get it over as quickly as possible while making quality ammunition.

Gentlemen, do not suggest sorting cases. That will not happen. There is no case inspection needed on pistol brass. From tumbler to case feeder. Split cases are found when boxing or loading. I load them until they split.

I only need one load. 99% plinking and target with the occasional varmint that needs addressing. One of the lever actions will rest by the door for that purpose...I live in the boonies. Currently use a .22 for that, but want more power, and it is nice to have something bigger in case a two legged critter needs addressing. I do not want to adjust sights between loads. Four pistols and three rifle to deal with. KISS.

So far, it looks like "overloading" .38 cases (.38+P+) is a viable and effective solution. At least for the short term.

Thanks for the input.

The first paragraph says it all. And no sorting at all? (good thing you'r not reloading 45 ACPs, primers would give you headaches!). You are putting a lot of limitations on your choices. One load for all guns? No sorting and no 38s in 357 chambers? I believe your quest is gonna be extremely difficult at best. Contact a commercial reloader and have him make some custom ammo?

[dverna]

The first paragraph says it all. And no sorting at all? (good thing you'r not reloading 45 ACPs, primers would give you headaches!). You are putting a lot of limitations on your choices. One load for all guns? No sorting and no 38s in 357 chambers? I believe your quest is gonna be extremely difficult at best. Contact a commercial reloader and have him make some custom ammo?

I have been shooting .38's in .357 chambers for a very long time. Never had a problem as I clean them once in awhile and do not shoot much .357.

One load for all my .38/357's is very doable if one does not expect optimum velocity or accuracy out of each gun. Commercial ammunition does just that!! It is not tailored to a specific gun.

After reloading .38's for decades (firing up to 20,000 per year) I determined inspecting cases was not needed. I will normally catch a split neck by scooping up two handfuls of brass and jiggling them around. There is tinkling sound from a split neck. If I do not catch it there, I catch it at the seating station on the 1050, or when boxing up loads, or when loading the gun.

Yes, for me reloading is a chore. That is how I am wired. If I could buy reasonably priced ammunition I would never reload another round. But I am cheap and shoot a lot. So I even reload 9mm and 12 ga.

Disliking an activity does not mean I am unsafe doing it. I use a Powder Check die so I do not have to constantly check the powder measure, but I still check drops when I add another 100 primers. I load in batches of 500-2000 rounds and want simple, safe and speedy. My smallest .38 ammunition box is 100 rounds and often dump bulk loads into .30 cal ammo boxes. I started using 5 gallon pails for 12 ga trap loads. Each holds 525 shells and it is the minimum I load at a time.

I reload a lot. Most of the 20k+ shotgun shells shown below are reloads:

[brewer12345]

Just load a +p 38 load and be done with it. That will do everything you want it to. There is no issue with shooting 38s in 357s.

[JimB..]

Been mulling this over for most of the day and finally realized that you have a 1050. I’d been trying to figure out how to avoid 357 brass while loading. Sure you could pick it out, but you’ve got better things to do. Can you setup a trimmer to just take everything down to 38spcl length? Case volume will be off a touch, but you aren’t sorting by headstamp anyway so it won’t matter.

[dverna]

Been mulling this over for most of the day and finally realized that you have a 1050. I’d been trying to figure out how to avoid 357 brass while loading. Sure you could pick it out, but you’ve got better things to do. Can you setup a trimmer to just take everything down to 38spcl length? Case volume will be off a touch, but you aren’t sorting by headstamp anyway so it won’t matter.

JimB,
I do not shoot any .357 brass at all. I have 300 new cases I was going to use for full power loads. I will keep them but not use them. If I use them I will need to segregate them.


To all;
I have received some good advice here and on a couple of PM's. I will start with .38+P loads and see how much recoil we are comfortable with in the pistols. Recoil in the rifles will not be an issue.

There is something in the Hodgdon reloading data for 125 gr bullets I do not understand.

It shows:
A max load of Universal in the .38 at 1019 fps at 17,000 psi...…...7.7" barrel
A max Load of Universal in the .38+P at 1072 fps at 18,900 psi...7.7" barrel
A max Load of Universal in the 9mm at 892 fps at 32,200 psi......4" barrel
A max Load of Universal in the .357 at 1453 fps at 39600 CUP....10" barrel...assume this is about 35k psi?

I understand that shorter barrels produce less velocity. Using the data from Ballistics by the Inch (BBI) for a 5" barrel using 124-125 gr Federal HydraShoks SAMMI specs are listed after the data and I assume factory ammo will be loaded close to those pressures

The .38 yields 1029 fps 17,000 psi
The 9mm yields 1115 fps 35,000 psi
The .357 yields 1571 fps (JHP-Not HS) 35,000 psi

I am confused...in both sets of data, the 9mm offers minimal difference in velocity over a .38Spl yet operates at almost double the pressure. Yet the .357 Mag shows a 40% increase in velocity over the 9mm operating at the same pressure.

What am I missing?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Case capacity. The smaller the case, the faster pressure rises in relation to velocity.

[Dusty Bannister]

I am looking at the 2014 annual manual and see there might be a typo in my book or your book.

"It shows:
A max load of Universal in the .38 at 1019 fps at 17,000 psi...…...7.7" barrel
A max Load of Universal in the .38+P at 1072 fps at 18,900 psi...7.7" barrel
(book shows CUP not PSI)
A max Load of Universal in the 9mm at 892 fps at 32,200 psi......4" barrel"

Is it possible that Universal has a slightly slower burn rate which would favor the longer barrel in hand gun powders?

[dverna]

Dusty,

You are correct the +P pressure is in CUP.

SF

I think I understand your comment. Both calibers see the max pressure of 35k PSI, but the larger case of the .357 allows a longer time at high pressure than the smaller 9mm. The smaller case builds pressure faster but cannot sustain it for long. It is why we reduce charges when we seat a bullet deeper. The larger .357 case requires more powder to reach the same pressure but maintains the high pressure for a longer time...yielding the higher velocity.

Makes sense now.

Thanks

[BrutalAB]

The main culprit regarding pressures is case capacity.
Larry gibson did a test for me where i had 38 special +p charges but the boolit was seated way out so it couldnt chamber in 38 special revolvers. This created extra case capacity.
Published pressures for those charges were like 18 and 19k psi, but his test showed it dropped down to the 10k psi range if i remember correctly.

The following is just my opinion and definitly should not be taken as fact.
You would likely achieve similar psi to the 9mm charge if you used its charge and seated the boolit deep inside the case to whatever the 9mm oal length is.

[reddog81]

Different case capacity, different barrel lengths, different ways of measuring the barrel length. All these favor differences favor the revolver loads.

I'd guess the .38 Special and 9mm probably have similar powder charge weights and the .357 has quite a bit more powder. That 9mm charge creates high pressure but only for a very brief time. Once that bullet starts moving down the barrel the pressure drops quickly. I'm guessing the .357 Load uses about 50% more powder (or more) and will create a pressure curve that last a bit longer because of all that extra powder available.

Looking at Hodgdons website and using Universal powder the max charges for for a 125 grain bullet are 4.3, 4.7, and 6.8 for 9MM, 38 Special and .357 Mag respectively. The 38 Special load uses more powder and can exploit the extra gas created by the more powder even though the pressure is about half, however the 9MM load is more efficient.

[1006]

I would see if your Marlin will pull a 357 dummy round from the tube magazine and raise it to the chamber for insertion into the chamber, before you ream it. There may not be enough room in the action for a 357.

I did not realize that the Marlin Cowboy would only run on the 38 Special, and I used to own one with the 24 inch octagon barrel.....when they first came out.

[1006]

You could probably talk a friend into loading the 357’s, if you load some 38’s for them.