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Thread: Why would "Satan Lube" be MUCH cleaner in the cold?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy PWS's Avatar
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    Why would "Satan Lube" be MUCH cleaner in the cold?

    Some of you might remember .357Maximum's "Satan Lube", six parts of parafin/beeswax/vaseline + grated Ivory?

    I made a big batch a while ago and have been using it for the last few years. Seems to function well as a lube - good accuracy with minimal or no leading (with reasonable loads) but WOW is it dirty in my revolvers.

    The weather finally got nice for Kodiak (dry!) and temps have been in the teens and twenties. The 666-1 is still shooting great with no cold bore flyers but is MUCH cleaner in the cold!

    Any suggestions to get the same effect in warmer temps? I like the stuff, it just makes everything gooey with black muck when warmer than 50 degrees or so.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    MML+soap. You'll like it better than 666.

    https://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/...6?r=2170044496
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  3. #3
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    PWS,
    There are two things to think about, in regards to your quest to use 666+1 in warmer temps and being less messy.

    1. Paraffin as a lube ingredient (in a wax-oil lube) tends to make a lube "turn to a liquid" in a fraction of a second upon firing. I've been told, to avoid that issue, you should have the paraffin content at 10% (or less).

    2. Soap: When you have enough soap in the Mix and Heat it to proper temps (like in the SL68B recipe, linked below), the molecular structure turns the lube into a grease. A grease will not turn to liquid in that fraction of a second upon firing. That is why SL68B is such a cleaner shooting Lube, even in Revolvers, which are problematic to that effect, due to cylinder gap...if the Lube is turned to a liquid, it'll just get blasted out of the gap.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...how-to-make-it


    If I were to experiment with Satan's lube, I'd probably try a batch mixed like 166+1
    OR
    166+6 and add 4 to 6 parts mineral oil, then follow the cooking instructions listed in the SL68B recipe.

    That's my 2¢
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy PWS's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, guys. I’m on the fence about making my own lube when there’s White Label but I have a few pounds of ingredients to use up. I’ll try the suggestions.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Grrrrrrrrr………last year, mid-year, anticipating the end of my on hand lube, I made 3X (in pounds) of 666+1, which is a GALLON, from components I have had on hand for 3-4 years (long story - reloading partner died), made mold tubes from drilled wood, PVC, and aluminum rods, poured 12 tubes for immediate use, had high hopes (till I read this thread), but have not used any yet. When is it not hot (80*+ F) in FL?

    Is there a way to reheat what I have, not scald the bee's wax, and with additives (which one/ones) modify my end product for real warm weather use?

    Dissociating constituents is not an option. Tossing it all and starting over is.

    My first attempt at making lube. It went well. I made more than I would ever need. Some to trade. Some to sell. Like pouring lead ingots. Go BIG or go home. I hope this is recoverable.

    600 posts even at this one. Perhaps before the next 66 I will learn something new.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    LO,

    It can be remelted at low temp and more paraffin or BW, or both, added to firm it up. I don't believe it will seriously alter its characteristics for lower velocity applications.

    If this lube is for 2K+ fps, I do recommend folks that like making their own lube, especially in warm climes, look hard at MML+soap. STRONGLY recommend.
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  7. #7
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    Land Owner,
    Try it as you made it, before you do anything. One person's messiness is another person's desired effects.
    If it turns out to be too messy for your application of shooting at FL's typical temperatures, then try cooking a small amount, like 6 oz of your lube and add 2 oz of fresh finely shaved Ivory soap. You may scorch it a little or maybe a lot? I personally don't think it'll be a problem if you scorch it a little, turning it a medium brown...but, dark brown or black will likely to much. You do need to cook it, until there is no lumps of soap left, you want it to be smooth and opaque. It will need to be real hot for that to happen. But, you won't want to allow it to stay that hot for very long, the longer it's hot, the more it will scorch. I'd pour it into a pan that is in a ice bath, as quickly as possible. When it cools and rests for a day, it will be more like a grease, than a wax based lube, like it is now. The melt temp will have increased significantly.


    Hamish mentioned adding more paraffin, while I disagree with that, there is nothing stopping you from trying that with a small batch as well, I surely won't be embarrassed if that happens to work, and I am proved wrong.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy PWS's Avatar
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    FWIW, the mess is only in revolvers. 666+1 has proven to be a top performer in rifles, excellent accuracy, easy to run through a lube sizer, first shot is same place and velocity as last shot, and the only fouling is the lube star and that can be toned down by only filling the grooves needed to perform.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    OK. Faith restored. Try it first. Then if necessary take small steps. Quantity is OK but experiment in small lots. Good advice.

    I used the double boiler method (as directed in the lube instructions) to dissolve the components and the temperature of the amalgam wouldn't get above the boiling point of the water at 212* F at standard sea level (FL coast) pressure. The resultant gallon is milky white (opaque).

    After nearly one hour of double boiling (seemed like TOO LONG) and (nearly) constant stirring there were STILL a LOT of unmelted lumps of soap that precipitated to the bottom. Worried me then. I asked here then. Told to "get it hot to get soap to dissolve" and couldn't understand how to do that in a double boiler at 212* F that I had not already tried for an hour.

    Worries me now after reading that unmelted soap is NOT GOOD. Top "half" to 3/4 is probably good to go.

    {PWS} I am sorry to have hijacked your thread...
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  10. #10
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Soap Lube (AKA: soap based Grease) needs to have been cooked Hot, like 460º Hot, for the Soap to "emulsify" into the oil/wax mix and become a Grease. Maybe a smaller percentage of soap in the mix will emulsify at a lower temp? I'm not sure? But I know I need 460º to emulsify the 33% soap in SL68B.

    If you only cooked it to 212º-ish, you probably have a wax based lube with bits of soap in it.
    Honestly, I don't know if bits of soaps is bad? or not bad? ...or maybe even good in some sort of way?
    The amount of soap in 666+1 is only 5%...It's probably such a small amount that it isn't really doing much good or bad.

    When .357Maximum made 666+1 he used dried Ivory that was turned into powder with something like a food processor. So if he didn't heat it beyond 212º, it likely had tiny bits of soap...but the tiny bits were probably not visible to the eye. And he had great success with it, so I would hesitate to believe that bits of soap in a wax lube is bad.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy PWS's Avatar
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    Not a highjack at all! The original question is being answered and explored.

    666+1 is also an easy lube to use, it flows at room temperature through a lubesizer and while a bit gummy on bullets, it isn't bad.

    I'll use up my supply and do the tweaks suggested above.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    When .357Maximum made 666+1 he used dried Ivory that was turned into powder with something like a food processor.
    I used 357Maximum's instructions exactly as given to me. These "finer points" were not in the original.

    I have a thought that grinding a small lot (grind with what I will have to "cypher" on for a time - more like extrude at this point), and reheating to thoroughly remix as tiny bits rather than lumps is a good experiment.

    Thanks Gentlemen. This has been instructive. Now, retired, I have something to chew on for a while...
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    I used 357Maximum's instructions exactly as given to me. These "finer points" were not in the original.

    I have a thought that grinding a small lot (grind with what I will have to "cypher" on for a time - more like extrude at this point), and reheating to thoroughly remix as tiny bits rather than lumps is a good experiment.

    Thanks Gentlemen. This has been instructive. Now, retired, I have something to chew on for a while...
    This ain't the original, but it's where I first heard of 666+1 and with 357Maximum's user name in the title, it's easy to search and find, so I have referenced this thread many times, when this subject comes up.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-maximum-lubes
    See posts 5,53,62,75.
    I guess 357Maximum never used the word "powder", but Geargnasher did in post 75 in his explanation of the difference between his cooking instruction and 357Maximum's.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I went back to my copy of the 2-25-2014 post by 357Maximum (post later edited by 357 Maximum and as linked by JonB above) and there were NO instructions for a double boiler, so I don't know where I got that stray information from.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  15. #15
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    That is a good thread, with lots of good info tucked in here and there...but dang, there is a lot of posts to read through
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

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