I just wanted to share an email response from Lee Precision. This email was prompted by my feelings of disgust towards Lyman & RCBS when I realized that both the Mag 25 & the Pro Melt are now Chinese bs.
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I just wanted to share an email response from Lee Precision. This email was prompted by my feelings of disgust towards Lyman & RCBS when I realized that both the Mag 25 & the Pro Melt are now Chinese bs.
Good to know, thanks for sharing
Some things are just no longer made in USA sadly. The iphone you talk and post messages on is made in China, computers and lathes. I was looking for lathe, even "German" lathes are made in China, I looked in to it. I wanted precision lathe made in USA no such thing. I ended up buying old US made South Bend and it's great machine but technology changed a lot since 1940s and I want DRO (digital readout) and after seeing Precision Matthews machines from GavinTube channel on YouTube they look great. I guess what I'm trying to say is not everything made in China is junk and not everything made in USA is great either. If I showed you the machining tool marks on Lee dies and how crookedly cut the collet in the neck die you would wonder if some drunk guy was cutting it by hand or the burrs and oblong cavities in Lee molds or expanding button in my Lee 300 Blk die is NOT round I get discussted too by lack of quality and mediocre customer service. RCBS on the other hand is much better quality gear, the molds are great but only 2 cavity, Match grade bullet seating dies with a window to drop a bullet is my favorite, powder dispensers I started with Lee but now they're just collecting dust. I got 3 drum type throwers and electronic Chargemaster Lite dispenser, 2 hand priming units RCBS (also got hand and bench Lee primers collecting dust, the bench one broke after 250 primes). I'm also using RCBS 3 way cutter head to trim 223 brass very quickly without any burrs or chamfering needed and let me tell you how amazing their customer service is! On multiple occasions I called when I had some questions or issues they sent me free replacement parts, let's take for example my last call. I call them to ask if I need a large priming rod for my APS priming tool, they said yes and because I didn't have one they offered to send me one now keep in mind I bought this tool 2nd hand, then I asked how to install it, I use needle-nose pliers to unscrew it and they said no we have a little wrench for this and will send you one as well, then he described about the set screw that holds it and it was missing and that was also sent to me, there are more examples but I'll stop for now. Did I also tell you they're very knowledgeable about their stuff? And when I called Lee to complain about the little dot/ring mark left in the shoulder of the case they said that for half the cost of the die the can look at it and see if they can refurbish it. I opted not too, later I learned that hole is there for a purpose and I was either putting too much lube or it was clogged and I was able to remedy this problem, still have the same die it's fine but their customer service didn't know the solution to this basic problem. I was novice reloader at the time.
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I know, America makes junk too. Just look at the modern automobile. I just hate to see shooting/reloading companies sell out like that. We are supposed to be patriots ******. But sadly we just bitch about it & fork over our money anyway. The pro melt WAS the best pot on the market in my opinion. Seen several of them that were 30+ years old & still going strong. I reckon those days are gone for good. They make their products cheaper overseas but the price sure don't go down.
Last edited by sgms18; 01-08-2020 at 01:43 PM.
I started reloading in 1966 with a Lee Loader in .38 Special. In the 54 years that have now passed, learning and enjoying the hobby, I've acquired and used equipment by almost every major manufacturer. I've had very few issues with Lee products, and when I've had one they've never failed to set it right. RCBS products are excellent, but cost more. As the old saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
It is not the fact That Most products are made someplace else. The main Reason is lack of support of the American consumer to purchase American made products. I don't make minimum Wage and I sure You Don't either . How can most Americans expect products to be made Cheap. Our standard of living is high . No one I know is working for Chinese wages., But the buying public wants all items Cheap, cheap.
Years ago the American buying public wants Cheap producing Goods. Now they Got them . Be careful want you wish For
NRA Endowment Member
International Ammunition Association
New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost
Everyone has an opinion and they all count equally.
Personally, 95% of my gear is RCBS regardless of where it's made. I don't blindly buy patriotically...I buy based on quality, durability, customer service after the sale and willingness to back their product, and price. I can't even remember how many times RCBS has gone above and beyond for me. That last incident, my son had borrowed my 505 scale from my loading bench (yeah, he got an earful from me) to weight check his broadheads. Somewhere between that and putting it back, the powder pan vanished. After I got over being angry, I went on the RCBS website and located a replacement pan...$20-something dollars...and called customer service to make the purchase. After they took my customer/mailing info and why i needed the part, I offered them my Visa card number. "No need for that, sir. Replacement pan coming at no charge to you". What?!!! I just finished telling them it had been lost, not broken or defective!!!!
It showed up the next day, Fed Ex P1. Talk about blown away...
So, I don't just blindly buy American without doing the homework. Remember, the lion's share of your purchase goes to the company selling the product, and not the Chinese company making little bits and pieces that go into the product.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
Rcbs has top notch customer service no doubt. But for how long? The more stuff they have made in China I would expect that to change. Hope I'm wrong, I really do. But if quality goes down I'd think you have to stop w/the freebies to stay in business. Hell they can't even get the pro-melt 2 to market. How long have we been waiting now? Obviously they are having major issues already. I just wish I'd bought me an original pro-melt several years ago before all this nonsense started.
Buy from anyone you like regardless of where it came from but try to remember this...
"Every dollar we spend on a ChineeeeeeCheeePo product is putting $'s in the pockets of your enemy!"
I hope one fine day everything we need and use will have a 'made in USA' sticker on it.
a m e r i c a n p r a v d a
Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!
“In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell
No doubt! I recently purchased a Lee Production Pot because of the numerous negative consumer reviews on the Chinese RCBS pot I was comparing it to. As I said, you have to treat each purchase as a separate entity and do the homework, without any blind allegiance to any one company or place of origin. It's a complete package, and IMHO you should never have to buy a piece of casting or reloading gear twice in a lifetime, so choose carefully!Originally Posted by sgms18
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
I couldn't agree more! By the way, love your signature. The outlaw josey Wales is one of my all time favorites.
Mine too!
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
Hard to believe ol Clint is 89!
Where it is made is almost meaningless anymore. Business that "makes" it in the USA may order parts or materials to do that making from anywhere in the world. Some Mercedes built in Tenn. have more US worker content than Fords assembled in Mich from sub assemblies built in Mexico.
People want the best possible quality at the lowest price. Successful businesses will be those that meet that desire. Post WW2 made in Japan was cheap junk. Hardly the case today. We don't want to try and live on 3rd world wages while working in 3rd world conditions. The people already doing that will work for lower pay in worse conditions. Companies will buy where it is most profitable to purchase.
We all vote with our wallets. I sometimes buy from gun show vendors rather than online because I appreciate the seller and want to support them. With shipping the prices are generally pretty close. When they aren't close enough I buy online. I'll spend a couple dollars extra on a die set or mold to vote for local business, but won't spend an extra $10 on a die or mold set.
When an American made item is available and the price is at least competitive then fine, I'll buy it. But I give to charity directly not in my purchases. Lee makes a good "value" for the money. In some cases what they offer allows one to do something at a price one can afford. Mercedes or Lincoln are great cars, I just don't drive one because I have a Ford budget. A Lee $20 double cavity mold has me casting for 3 calibers/weights where a Lyman or NOE would have me at only 1. When they offer what I need and Lee doesn't then they get the money, when I need some plinking 158 grain SWC in 38 caliber.... Lee takes care of business.
MEC is super on parts, ordering a replacement for a Pacific shotshell press out of production since dirt was new and not only did the person at MEC check to confirm a later version of hull/base sizer could be used with my press gave me the same "warranty part" when it came time to pay for it. Not bad for supporting a press from a company they bought.
Lee has been good about replacing parts, and yes a few items have benefited from some tweaks post purchase. Polishing the push through sizing die for example. Small time investment that isn't "mandatory" but worthwhile saves me money on the purchase. The Lee dies and Classic Cast presses are first rate at a good price. Pretty sure they are US made, also pretty sure not made from only US steel and parts. Washers, nuts, etc. I bet even they don't know country of origin for the raw materials their suppliers use.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
I have a question. In Michigan there is a push for the state government to purchase from Michigan companies. If that means spending a bit more than buying same item from out of state company is that wasting taxpayer money or keeping taxpayer money "in the state"?
How is our buying a product based on country of origin different?
BTW - I don't have a distinct opinion on this. Cost and value being equal I say sure in-state company wins. Little bit sketchy about paying a premium price just to keep it "local".
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
If it supports local businesses then I say go for it. The government (state or federal) is going to waste you money either way. That's just what government does.
Hard to care too much when your spending money you didn't have to work for.
Paragraphs please. Large blocks of text are impossible for old eyes to read. Hitting the enter key twice every so often doesn't cost anything.
NRA Benefactor.
Was doing on my phonesorry, agree with you.
The lines are blurred now. The Ford you buy has more import parts than Toyota. Ironically Toyota has more USA sourced parts than any other card made in USA. Take iPhone, it says on it, designed in California and made in China and my mini lathe, it's made in China but I looked everywhere to buy a new American one but they are not made anymore in USA. The legendary South Bend was sold to Grizzly who in turn imports cheap Chinese lathes and sells it here, you should see how it was assembled inside, like someone took a sledgehammer and "hand fitted" leadscrew to bushings that they spared to put ball bearing in it! It would jam and plastic gears would break when threading, turns out the bushing hidden under plastic housing didn't even have any oil in it.
So yeah I am disgusted by the cheap quality, later I picked up old South Bend lathe when it was made in USA and it works but now I want DRO so I might have to go with something more modern and something newer like Mathew Precision which is also made in Hong Kong. What got me was even when I searched for German lathe and looked in to origin where it was made guess what, it's also made in China supposedly being overseen by Germans so it's not just America doing it. There is a big difference though between an iPhone made in China and some cheap knockoff same as DeWalt made in China and Harbor Freight junk tools - both made in China. So what I am saying not everything is cheap junk because it's made in China (iPhone, DeWalt, etc). It's more like you get what you pay for, perfect example is Lee vs. Redding both are American companies.
Second is when you buy your Dell computer or your Iphone or your TV or your Ford with imported parts are you sending your dollars to enemy? How's that any different from buying RCBS melting pot? If RCBS didn't screw up and 2nd gen pot was even better than 1st one, would anyone even notice it's made in China?
The days of products Made in USA are getting less and less and it's only downhill from now on but it doesn't mean the quality will decline, the production does get better, it will all come down how much you are willing to spend rather where it's made.
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