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Thread: .30-06 for deer, need 1700ft-lbs

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy Gamsek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njc110381 View Post
    May I ask why you felt your reply wasn't relevant Gamsek? I thought it was very interesting and it showed a lot of options from our part of the world. It was a good post and could have been useful for anyone going back through the search facility later too.
    Sorry, I got a feeling it turned from “which mould” to “how much is necessary to kill a deer”. We have 1000J at 100m requirement for roe deer here and I know that you have to follow your regulations. Will repost two photos back.

  2. #42
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamsek View Post
    Sorry, I got a feeling it turned from “which mould” to “how much is necessary to kill a deer”. We have 1000J at 100m requirement for roe deer here and I know that you have to follow your regulations. Will repost two photos back.
    For those of us not as familiar with the metric system, what does 1000J at 100 meters equate to in a more or less standard cartridge loading?

    This is interesting stuff, I'm always intrigued at how different hunting laws are from state to state here and in some cases like Texas, even from county to county.

  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy
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    1000 Joules is about 740ft-lbs. To retain that at 100m, I'd say a .222 would be about the minimum. .223 would do it easily. On the other hand bigger pistol rounds like the .44 magnum, although starting out with the same energy at the muzzle, would fall short at 100m because of the poor efficiency of the bullet in flight.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy Gamsek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    For those of us not as familiar with the metric system, what does 1000J at 100 meters equate to in a more or less standard cartridge loading?

    This is interesting stuff, I'm always intrigued at how different hunting laws are from state to state here and in some cases like Texas, even from county to county.
    I don’t want to hijack the topic but since we are talking about Joules and roe deer, yes it’s
    Minimum Joules, bullet diameter and weight of hunting bullets are set depends on game. If you use monolithic bullet, weight can be lower.
    to explain a bit.
    Top to bottom
    Brown bear, 3000J, 7mm (.284”)
    Red stag,Capricorn,wild hog, 2500J, 6.5mm or .257”
    Wolf, chamois, wild sheep, 1y old stag/hog .243”
    Roe deer, jackal, lynx .5.6mm or .222”
    Then mink, fox, birds minimum dia.177”


    My last roe buck hit with 130grs MP 311410 HP GC, 300 BLK.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by njc110381 View Post
    Plenty of people around over here to take you out if you visit. Message me if you're planning a trip, I'm sure something could be sorted and if they're not too far from me I may be able to take you myself.

    .22 Hornet used to be a popular roe calibre until the law changed. We have more lenient laws for humane dispatch and I've shot roe with my Hornet after road accidents etc. They fall over just the same.
    I might just take you up on that someday. Now that we have two brand new grand-nephews in the London area (Beckinham) my better half is starting to hint to me about a visit.

  6. #46
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    That Mihec "Hammer Of Thor" looks really impressive,even though a tad light...

    About energy requirements... Our energy is also measured at 100 meters. Almost any factory 308 Win soft point hunting ammo is moose legal ,at the same time almost all 45-70 factory ammo is underpowered and not moose legal.

    Does that make a 308 better big game caliber than 45-70?

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy
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    Nope. There's very few things walking that a 45/70 cannot take at 100 yards. The 308 is a fine cartridge, but there's something about the ole 45/70 that made it a long range buffalo gun that has stood the test of time. Millions of dead buffalo can confirm that!

  8. #48
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    Some states here in the US have wonky requirements for legal hunting cartridges also. IMO it mostly boils down to the people making the rules are just ignorant, they don't know enough about what they are trying to rule.

    Accurate has quite a few bullet designs with a good sized metplat that will work in the 30-06. I'd lean towards a GC bullet because well having a GC really does not hurt.

  9. #49
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    Wow! Those regs would be a challenge here. In Michigan we can hunt whitetail deer with anything except rimfire or muzzleloaders smaller than .44". The exception is the south half of the Lower Peninsula where most centerfire rifles are banned (for deer hunting only) to reduce the range because of the population density.

    Back on topic- I'm getting 2080fps with the Lee 170FN (182gr as loaded for me) in a .30-30. I powder coat them and am getting no leading. 2 1/2 moa at 100 yards. That's close to what you need. .30-06 should be able to get you there.

    My suggestion would be try your Lee 170FN. Worst case- it doesn't work and you need to order a heavier mold. Best case- you get the velocity you need and it's time to go hunting!

    Good luck!

    John

  10. #50
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    I don't know if already mentioned but I powder coat my cast boolits. I have found that with PC I can use a softer alloy. I still use the gas check as well. Judging from my experience I'd say you could get what you need with powder coated boolits that are only mid teens in Bhn hardness.

    I'm shooting a 500 S&W @ 32K psi with boolits that are less than 15bhn using non-gas checked powder coated boolits.

    Motor

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    There is to much over thinking on cartridges and bullets for deer. A 30/06 is plenty of gun for deer and the best bullet is the one your rifle shoots best. All the Hunter has to do is make a decent shot. Gimmick bullets don't make up for poor shots.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    There is to much over thinking on cartridges and bullets for deer. A 30/06 is plenty of gun for deer and the best bullet is the one your rifle shoots best. All the Hunter has to do is make a decent shot. Gimmick bullets don't make up for poor shots.
    I think you may have missed the OP's needs- he's legally required to get 1700 ft. lbs. at muzzle. To do that he needs to get the Lee 170FN to 2150fps or go with a heavier boolit to reach the required energy levels at lower velocity. My .30-30 load of choice with the Lee 170FN is 27.0 grains of IMR3031 at 1950fps. It's the most accurate I've found. Sufficient for Michigan Whitetails? Yes. Legal for 60lb. Roe Deer in the UK? No.

    The discussion is about trying to find him a boolit/load solution that meets the requirements of his hunting regulations- not about what's needed to kill a 60lb. deer.

    Have a great day!

    John

  13. #53
    I'll throw out there again I think paper patching to be a good potential option for the OP.

    Easily gets him into the velocity range he needs and is easier than you'd expect. On the plus you get the pride of a niche hobby within a niche hobby.

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check