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Thread: .30-06 for deer, need 1700ft-lbs

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    .30-06 for deer, need 1700ft-lbs

    Hey guys. I've recently picked up a .30-06 Browning BLR and would like to try to load it to hunt deer. UK law dictates that I need to produce 1700ft-lbs at the muzzle, so velocity comes into consideration. The rifle has a 1-10 twist and a 22" barrel.

    If I load the Lee 170gr flat nose which seems very popular I'll need to make 2125fps. Is that realistic with a gas check? We don't have lead wheel weights here as far as I can tell but I do have printing type, plain roofing lead and pewter for tin. I haven't bought a mould yet so if I need to go heavier I can. If I was to load something at 200gr I would only need 1960fps, so maybe that would be a more sensible place to start?

    We have some weird rules here, the energy requirements being one of them. In England I need 1700ft-lbs to shoot a roe deer. They weigh about 60lbs!

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Oh yeah that’s easy! I can get 2300 FPS with my 308 lee 150, and get 5 round groups the size of your thumb nail at 100 yards. I would start with Varget or IMR 4064 those seem to work well. For higher velocity I like to use 25/75 pure/WW with 3-5%tin I know people say it’s a waste but I have tons of tin and I do think it holds together better

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Should be able to make that velocity with good boolit fit and any of several medium to slow powders. 4895 springs to mind.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  4. #4
    Not speaking from a ton of experience here, but I'm developing a paper patched load for 06 that gets 2300-2400 fps with 4198 and a 165 ranch dog mold.

    It's decently accurate but not where I want it yet. Paper patching is definitely worth looking into as an option...more work and more variables but with that come a lot more pride in accomplishment too! Looking forward to taking deer next season with it ...

    Good luck and enjoy!!

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Velocity is easy. I would try around 90% roof lead, and 10% print type, assuming it is like our linotype. You don't want to use too much linotype, as it makes for a very destructive bullet at these velocities. Although the 170 gr. will work fine, I recommend the 200 gr. bullet as I believe heavy for caliber always works best for cast bullets. You could push this just as fast as the 170 gr.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    njc, your 10" twist will probably be the limiting factor here. It may not be possible to break the 2000 fps mark with that twist unless everything in your load is balanced perfectly. I'm not saying it can't be done but I believe you'll find it easier to achieve the energy you need using a 200+ grain bullet running around 18-1900 fps.

    WinchesterM1 states that he has achieved over 2000 fos with his .308, it could be that his rifle has a 1-11 twist which is common in .308. Or perhaps he has a rifle that just plain works (Lucky Dog!). You won't know until you try! If it were me, I'd be looking at paper-patching a 180-ish grain bullet of soft construction as Waksupi has suggested, loaded over a charge of 4350 or 4831. Check the Paper Patching forum for more info. Good luck on your quest!
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    I would go for a boolit of 200+ grains. More likely it will work.
    "If you see me running something has gone poorly, and you should probably run too." - any beekeeper

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    in my 10 twist 30-06 groups get 10x bigger over 2k weather its PC with gas check or PP. it would be much easier to get a 200gr+ boolit to make power since speed and rpm is the hard part. id put about 220gr at 1900fps an try to be somewhat soft, like 10 hardness if you can

  9. #9
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    A 200 or heavier grain boolit at 1950fps is your better option in my opinion, and it isn't difficult at all to get to that velocity and still retain excellent accuracy. Are they going to weigh your boolits and chronograph your loads? I use the NOE version of the 311041 and at 1900-2000 fps it performs very effectively on deer. I've gone higher, but beyond 2000fps accuracy starts to go downhill quickly in my 1/10 twist M700 30-06. Paper patching is another option as other have mentioned. It's a bit of work but you can get very close to jacketed bullet velocities with adequate hunting accuracy.

  10. #10
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    I am also in the heavier bullet camp and would probably want one with a bigger meplat. Consider the RCBS 180 grain flat point. Mine drop from the mold over 190 grains and the nose is a better profile for energy transfer. It's been a good shooter in every .30 caliber rifle I've tried it in.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
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    Lyman shows several loads which meet the minimum velocity requirement for a 200-grain cast bullet of 1960 fps. I too suggest a 200-grain bullet.

    http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...%20-%20ocr.pdf


    .

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    I to recommend a heavier boolit, something 200+ gr like the Arsenal 311331 or from NOE.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Just my 2 cents, here, but a heavy for caliber boolit would be my choice. Also, a thought about your circumstances over there. How would the fish police know what energy levels are obtained by your ammo? Over here, the rules writers rarely know what they are doing when they draft laws & regulations.

    Good luck. 725

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A friend of mine used a 30-30 Winchester for years with a 31141 Ideal Bullet at just 1900 FPS from a 20inch carbine. He killed every deer he shot at with no problems. I use the same bullet in my 30-06 at just over 2000 from a 22 inch barrel with good accuracy and good killing power. But usually I opt for a 190 grain rn bullet I made from a Lee mould and push it just a little more doing about 2100 fps. I use RX7 powder and Carnuba Red lube and get no leading and accuracy uder2" at 100 yards with a 2 1/2 power scope.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks for all the replies guys! General opinion seems to be go heavier so I'll do that, that's no problem.

    I may give paper patching a go but I will need to learn how to do it. I'm happy to invest some time in learning things though, it's good fun. The type I have here is linotype yes, 10% sounds good as what I have should last me a lifetime at that ratio!

    As for my loads being checked, well it will only likely happen if something goes wrong. If I get caught doing something I shouldn't or they have reason to believe I may have been doing something wrong they would test them. If it's as easy to do things legally as it is illegally, it makes sense to keep things as they should be to avoid bother. The trouble being that a firearm related offence could result in a lifetime ban from owning them, it's just not worth it.

    I'll have a look around and see what moulds are available to me here. A lot of the good makes you have over in the US aren't imported here. It's not worth the makers messing around with the paperwork for such a small market.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I am also in the heavier bullet camp and would probably want one with a bigger meplat. Consider the RCBS 180 grain flat point. Mine drop from the mold over 190 grains and the nose is a better profile for energy transfer. It's been a good shooter in every .30 caliber rifle I've tried it in.
    Exactly what I was thinking...
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  17. #17
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    Yes, go heavier. A 200 - 210 gr bullet at 1960 fps will just make the energy requirement and be at the top end of the RPM Threshold so good accuracy through 200m should be very possible. Many good loads with slow medium burning powders and the slower burning powders are available. I suggest extruded powders and use a dacron filler if load density is less than 80%. A bullet with a meplat cast of an alloy of 97/1.5/1.5 air cooled for 7 - 10 days, sized at .311, GC'd and lubed with a softer lube such as WL 2500+ will give it's best accuracy for the first 6 - 8 shots out of a clean barrel. Groups will double in size shortly after unless you clean the barrel. I always start hunting with a clean barrel and figure if the game isn't got in 6 - 8 shots I ain't gonna get it and might as well go home and clean the barrel...….
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


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    What Larry Said! /\ /\
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    Je suis Charlie
    Remember Lavoy!
    I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well guys, it looks like I'm quite limited regarding what I can easily source here. Lee is stocked in a number of places, Lyman and RCBS are hard to find. I think NOE will ship to me.

    If I was to buy the lee 200gr round nose and hollow point it a little would that do the same job on deer as having a flat nose? Energy transfer is important and I don't know how that works exactly. Not with cast anyway.

    I think paper patching could be a no go, I'll be using a moderator/suppressor.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use the rcbs 30-180fn. 10'' twist to 2100 fps. IMR4064 or IMR4895 will get you where you want to be with good accuracy.
    As a side note, a source for lead that is often overlooked, are demolition companies. Most of the older houses have lead sheet above the bay windows, and on the flat roof areas. Back in the early '80's I used to take 1 to 2 tons a month to the scrapyard. Still plenty of soft lead to be had in the UK.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check