.30-06 for deer, need 1700ft-lbs

[dverna]

Considering the possible issue with game wardens, is it worth shooting cast bullets? A couple of boxes of decent hunting bullets will last decades and be easier to develop a load with. If you want a lower recoiling load, using jacketed bullets designed for the .30/30 at .30/30 velocity will do the trick and not raise any questions.

Go ahead and get a mold to muck around with, but hunt with jacketed. There is no advantage to hunting with cast bullets, except the pride of accomplishment.

I am a KISS person.

[megasupermagnum]

Do you already own the Lee 170 grain? If so, try it. What is your standard for accuracy? Maybe you won't get the best accuracy ever at 2200 fps, but 2"-3" should be attainable, members here have done better than this too.

[brewer12345]

Well guys, it looks like I'm quite limited regarding what I can easily source here. Lee is stocked in a number of places, Lyman and RCBS are hard to find. I think NOE will ship to me.

If I was to buy the lee 200gr round nose and hollow point it a little would that do the same job on deer as having a flat nose? Energy transfer is important and I don't know how that works exactly. Not with cast anyway.

I think paper patching could be a no go, I'll be using a moderator/suppressor.

I would think that the round nose 200 grain lee would be fine for game. I would try using a relatively soft alloy so that you get expansion/bullet deformation. With a suppressor I would suggest powder coating as well.

[seetrout]

In the UK do they really pull bullets and chrono your loads to determine the ft lbs of NRG? Or are they like here where they would say "Oh 30-06 gives this much NRG per factory load data"? That's what they would do here.

[Gamsek]

Some good options from MP Molds

[njc110381]

I'm a gardener by trade. Quite often when ripping down old sheds I still stumble across things made back in the days when folk used to use tin roof sheets and flash them with lead. Sometimes old post tops have a lead cap too. I pick up enough to cover my needs. A few of my trade friends also know I use it so will save any they find for me.

I could just shoot jacketed. I already do. But I've shot over 500 deer with all sorts of calibres from .243 to .375H&H Mag. We don't have a tag system in the UK - I shot seven deer in one day once and gave the meat to friends! We just don't have enough shooters to control the population unlike you guys in the US who have to share your resources carefully. I know guys who go out and shoot twenty per outing, and they're paid to do it. So with that in mind I'm looking for other options to keep the hobby exciting. Making my own projectile to take a deer with is an interesting challenge.

So far I have moulds for my .45-70, .416 Rigby and my .357. The latter isn't allowed for deer, so it's range use only. The .45-70 currently isn't conditioned for deer, only range because I couldn't justify having so many guns using deer as good reason. Amongst developing something for the .30-06 I would also like to cast for my .416. I need to hone out a Lee .410 sizer to .417 so I can size and gas check them, then I can have a play with that too. I have the RCBS .416-350FN, it looks like a good shape.

[Duckdog]

I don't know about in the UK, but when they rebuild the water systems on street projects, the old water services are mostly lead pipe. They should be considered "pure" and are pretty soft, but usually it ends up getting scrapped. Usually, where I am at, it is there for the asking. Usually a few cases of beer will grease the skids!

[GooseGestapo]

I use a very simple recipe;
Lee .311-170gr FNGC, COWW +2% tin from 95/5% Leadfree solder.
34.0gr H4895 using Lee #2.5 dipper. Crimp to crimp groove with Lee FCD.

Works both M1 Garands, and shoots 2-2.5 MOA from all 5 ‘06’s I own.

With the Lee .311-155 PTGC (6-cavities!) I use the 2.8 dipper shimmed to 36.5gr.
With the 170gr boolit, I set the Garands and O3A3 sights to 600yds. For the 155gr, 500yds.

My older brother once took down a ~140lb whitetail doe with the 150gr FNGC over 7.5gr of Unique in a .30/30. Bullet penetrated from femur (hip) to under hide on front of chest. (What we call a “Texas heart shot”!). He was hunting snowshoe hares in Maine... At 2,000+fps, the same shot would have made a mess!!!

[dverna]

I'm a gardener by trade. Quite often when ripping down old sheds I still stumble across things made back in the days when folk used to use tin roof sheets and flash them with lead. Sometimes old post tops have a lead cap too. I pick up enough to cover my needs. A few of my trade friends also know I use it so will save any they find for me.

I could just shoot jacketed. I already do. But I've shot over 500 deer with all sorts of calibres from .243 to .375H&H Mag. We don't have a tag system in the UK - I shot seven deer in one day once and gave the meat to friends! We just don't have enough shooters to control the population unlike you guys in the US who have to share your resources carefully. I know guys who go out and shoot twenty per outing, and they're paid to do it. So with that in mind I'm looking for other options to keep the hobby exciting. Making my own projectile to take a deer with is an interesting challenge.

So far I have moulds for my .45-70, .416 Rigby and my .357. The latter isn't allowed for deer, so it's range use only. The .45-70 currently isn't conditioned for deer, only range because I couldn't justify having so many guns using deer as good reason. Amongst developing something for the .30-06 I would also like to cast for my .416. I need to hone out a Lee .410 sizer to .417 so I can size and gas check them, then I can have a play with that too. I have the RCBS .416-350FN, it looks like a good shape.

Thank you sharing your situation and hunting conditions. It was interesting.

[Dan Cash]

I believe Accurate Mold will ship to England. I use this 215 grain bullet http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=31-215L-D.png in gas check form but paper patched for .30-40 Krag and ,30-06 Springfield. It is propelled by 42 grains of Alliant R19 in the Krag and 52 grains of same in the -06. Both cartridges are giving me 2200-2400 fps. While my mould is cut for a gascheck, were I to purchase a new mould it would be the one listed above as paper patched, the gas check does not seem necessary.

This bullet is my exclusive hunting bullet for deer, antelope and elk. It is very effective to 250 and accuracy is more than adequate.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Sure wish we had a deer population like that! I'd never need to put one in the freezer. The family could eat one over the course of a week! I love watching Scott Rea on you tube cut one up!

[WinchesterM1]

njc, your 10" twist will probably be the limiting factor here. It may not be possible to break the 2000 fps mark with that twist unless everything in your load is balanced perfectly. I'm not saying it can't be done but I believe you'll find it easier to achieve the energy you need using a 200+ grain bullet running around 18-1900 fps.

WinchesterM1 states that he has achieved over 2000 fos with his .308, it could be that his rifle has a 1-11 twist which is common in .308. Or perhaps he has a rifle that just plain works (Lucky Dog!). You won't know until you try! If it were me, I'd be looking at paper-patching a 180-ish grain bullet of soft construction as Waksupi has suggested, loaded over a charge of 4350 or 4831. Check the Paper Patching forum for more info. Good luck on your quest!

Yes I forgot to mention I have a 1/12 twist! Thanks for reminding me

[quilbilly]

1700 ft# for roe deer!!! That is ridiculous! Achieving it is easy but for roe deer?? Red deer stags maybe. Roe deer aren't much bigger than a super-sized coyote! I have heard in the Scandanavian countries that a triple deuce is very popular. At that velocity and that caliber, there won't be much meat left and I have heard the meat is delightful. I now have family in the U.K. and have always dreamed of a roe deer hunt for some reason. I can't help but wonder if there are different rules for muzzleloaders and roe deer so you wouldn't ruin as much meat.

[richhodg66]

I thought it odd to have a power level that high for a 60 lb animal seemed strange as well, but game laws often don't make sense here either.

[njc110381]

1700 ft# for roe deer!!! That is ridiculous! Achieving it is easy but for roe deer?? Red deer stags maybe. Roe deer aren't much bigger than a super-sized coyote! I have heard in the Scandanavian countries that a triple deuce is very popular. At that velocity and that caliber, there won't be much meat left and I have heard the meat is delightful. I now have family in the U.K. and have always dreamed of a roe deer hunt for some reason. I can't help but wonder if there are different rules for muzzleloaders and roe deer so you wouldn't ruin as much meat.

Plenty of people around over here to take you out if you visit. Message me if you're planning a trip, I'm sure something could be sorted and if they're not too far from me I may be able to take you myself.

.22 Hornet used to be a popular roe calibre until the law changed. We have more lenient laws for humane dispatch and I've shot roe with my Hornet after road accidents etc. They fall over just the same.

[richhodg66]

Reading your first post again about that 170 grain bullet and 2150 FPS, that sounds suspiciously like a factory .30-30 loading here in the states. Makes me wonder if that's what they used as a benchmark?

[njc110381]

Our most popular deer calibre here is .243. .30-30 is rare here but no doubt it would have been a consideration because it's so popular elsewhere.

[Petander]

Here in Finland we have the same muzzle energy system for hunting ammo.

But roe deer is in a lower power class than whitetail... moose is higher. I have shot a few roe deers with 300 WM and well... a fmj would be best if you're gonna eat. Of course the fmj is not legal,a hunting bullet has to expand.

But if I was planning deer hunt with cast,I'd try NOE or accurate 200+ grains flat nose.

One note: I'm going to order bismuth alloy from Rotometals. 20 lbs shipping to Finland is about $50, a quick DHL delivery. An average 2-3 lbs bullet mold from USA using USPS costs about $36 and is slower. I just bought a H&G ,paying more for USPS than the mold. But Rotometals shipping cost suprised me,ordering casting alloys from overseas is not completely out of question.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I hunt with jacketed,even moose with 45-70. One bad day someone just might decide my cast loads are solids,that would be a very bad day.

[richhodg66]

For deer the size you're talking about, I would think just about any .30 caliber cast bullet with a flat nose would work fine at 1800 FPS or more. We have some pretty darn big deer here in the Midwest and even though they average twice the body weight of deer down south, they really don't take that much killing with a boiler room hit. You've just gotta put the bullet where it counts.

[njc110381]

.....

May I ask why you felt your reply wasn't relevant Gamsek? I thought it was very interesting and it showed a lot of options from our part of the world. It was a good post and could have been useful for anyone going back through the search facility later too.