Number of PC coats to prevent leading

[Bill P.]

Ok Guy check this out I cooked another batch last night and have a thermometer in the oven that read and maintained 400 degrees. I also went and got a infrared thermometer. After being in the oven at 400 for 20 min infrared said actual bullet temp was only 300 degrees. It took a full 30 min for bullet temp to reach 400. So it looks like bullet metal temp lags way behind air temp.

[Dragonheart]

Powder starts to flow at approximately 150 degrees so your bullets have to increase 250 degrees more before they reach 400. It is the bullets that have to be at 400 degrees, not the air temperature in the oven. Depending on the amount of bullets the air temperature in the oven can be at 400 for more than 30 minutes before the bullets are heated up to 400. What the powder manufactures are saying is the 10 minute timing starts when the bullets reach 400 degrees, not the air temperature.

If you preheat a kitchen oven to 400 degrees then put in a chicken would the chicken be cooked? Of course not, but the oven's air temperature would be reading 400 degrees, but the chicken would not have had enough time to reach the temperature necessary for it to be cooked. The same thing applies to bullets.

[Conditor22]

Most people ARE NOT baking PC long enough
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4487398
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4488148

the problem could be over crimping and down-sizing the boolits (Biggest mistake people make with 9MM)

Use a hammer type boolit puller and see what size the boolits end up at.

[Bill P.]

Crimping definitely not the problem. I only taper crimp just enough to remove the flare. I have pulled many a bullet to check for crimp damage. Im thinking not cured at temp long enough. I won't be able to test before Saturday I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you all know what happens. Thanks for all the help.

[Hick]

I suppose I'm probably going to be castigated for being too simple, but I just set the dial of my toaster oven to 400, and as soon as the thermostat cycles I put in the tray of bullets and set the timer for 15 minutes. I don't wait for the powder to flow, I don't wait for the bullets to heat up, and I've never had Smokes clear come off those bullets, even after going through the rifling and hitting targets and rocks. The only thing I'm careful about is to make sure that nothing has touched those bullets after they came out of the mold-- absolutely clean surface.

[slide]

I don't think there is one set way. Different people, different climates,different ovens. Do what works for you. I use the Bruce Lee style. Look at all techniques, use what works and throw away what doesn't.

[Rcmaveric]

I don't think there is one set way. Different people, different climates,different ovens. Do what works for you. I use the Bruce Lee style. Look at all techniques, use what works and throw away what doesn't.

I agree.. sometimes all one needs is an open mind. The last thing you try will be the trick the cures all.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[cwlongshot]

Powder starts to flow at approximately 150 degrees so your bullets have to increase 250 degrees more before they reach 400. It is the bullets that have to be at 400 degrees, not the air temperature in the oven. Depending on the amount of bullets the air temperature in the oven can be at 400 for more than 30 minutes before the bullets are heated up to 400. What the powder manufactures are saying is the 10 minute timing starts when the bullets reach 400 degrees, not the air temperature.

If you preheat a kitchen oven to 400 degrees then put in a chicken would the chicken be cooked? Of course not, but the oven's air temperature would be reading 400 degrees, but the chicken would not have had enough time to reach the temperature necessary for it to be cooked. The same thing applies to bullets.

I understand what you are saying here. But you are mistaken. We are not cooking food. Inturnal temp means little. POWDER ONLY POWDER NEEDS SPECIFIED TIME. Yes we should not look at air temp. Laser tem while not super accurate if tested to be adaquite will read temp of the powder surface. Its not thick enough to be much cooler throuought. Now Yes, of coarse the bullets temp will rise as well, but in no reality does the bullet itself need to reach 400 and maintain 400 for X time, to have properly coated bullets. THE COATING DOES.

We all know your a smart man, but dont think we are all ignorant to requirements of a coated bullet. Its not rocket science.

[Hossfly]

I drilled a hole in a boolit, stuck the end of a thermocouple wire in and smashed to catch insulation of wire to hold tight. When curing power thr temp comes up slowly inside boolit and is quite even. The temperature gets up within 10 mins during the timer time to 400’ . After that is when I start the 20 min. Average is still no longer than 25 minutes. You don’t have to do this every time, just lets you know how your quick your operation works. One coat and done so far so good with not a hint of leading in 9mm or 38 spl.

[Dragonheart]

My point was not to dissuade you from a process that works for you because if it works by all means continue. My point is what to do if it doesn't work, or if you one day decide to cook 2000 bullets instead of 200, get a new oven or much bigger oven.

[Conditor22]

I suppose I'm probably going to be castigated for being too simple, but I just set the dial of my toaster oven to 400, and as soon as the thermostat cycles I put in the tray of bullets and set the timer for 15 minutes. I don't wait for the powder to flow, I don't wait for the bullets to heat up, and I've never had Smokes clear come off those bullets, even after going through the rifling and hitting targets and rocks. The only thing I'm careful about is to make sure that nothing has touched those bullets after they came out of the mold-- absolutely clean surface.

Some companies make/sell a Hotcoat Powder Coat Ultra-Gloss Clear Lo-Temp Topcoat Item #10329 Topcoat
https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-pow...p-topcoat.html

[Conditor22]

Those doing short bake times, do yourself a favor, pull and check a loaded PC'd boolit occasionally to make sure you're not getting this.



I wouldn't want to rely on this to shoot where I aim it. Not sure it would get bad enough to cause a squib BUT I'm not willing to risk it.

Not al powders or powdercoating react/work the same.

[Dragonheart]

"Not al powders or powder coating react/work the same."

Is absolutely correct and good advice. For this reason I suggest that all new to PC for the first time, is just do what has already been done. Get a pound of power from Smoke and coat & cook like everyone else until you get the process down.

If you have exhausted Smoke's colors or just want ot branch out having thousands of powders available try Prismatic Powder. One thing I really like about Prismatic is you can get online specs for every powder they sell. These specs will tell you the cure, base, gloss, hardness, etc. etc. I know of no other company that has this information available. Companies like Eastewoo are reselling powder to paint motorcycles, equipment, machinery, autos, etc. and their customers don't have the need for a powder that can withstand being driven down a hot tube at 3K feet per second as we do. Eastwoods suggestion of timing the cure after powder flow may be fine for me to coat my pipe wrench, but that method can result in undercured bullets. I also would be leary of any low temp powder or altered curing process, but of course it is your hobby and your firearms to do with as you wish.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I would say rather then pull a bullet put some in a can or jar covered in powder let it sit over time if in a week or two it has not done that then you should be good , I have had no reactions to any of the powders I have tried or coatings I have used , so do try a few and see

[Bill P.]

Well let me just say thanks for all your help guys! I was able to go to the range for lunch today and did some tests. What I found was if I baked pc at 400 for total of 30 min zero leading. I baked another batch at 400 for 20 min had light leading. So I think what was happening with my 2 coat process is that the first coat was actually getting baked twiced wich lead to success. All this time all I had to do was leave them in for 10 more minutes. Oh yeah I was at an indoor range today and noticed that the under cured bullets had a smell to them that the fully cured ones did not. Maybe that is a way you can tell if they are cured properly.

[Phlier]

I understand what you are saying here. But you are mistaken. We are not cooking food. Inturnal temp means little. POWDER ONLY POWDER NEEDS SPECIFIED TIME. Yes we should not look at air temp. Laser tem while not super accurate if tested to be adaquite will read temp of the powder surface. Its not thick enough to be much cooler throuought. Now Yes, of coarse the bullets temp will rise as well, but in no reality does the bullet itself need to reach 400 and maintain 400 for X time, to have properly coated bullets. THE COATING DOES.

We all know your a smart man, but dont think we are all ignorant to requirements of a coated bullet. Its not rocket science.

Cwlongshot, you know I respect you like a brother, and I'm not at all trying to start/continue an argument at all, but please note that some powder manufacturers do state that the object being coated needs to obtain the correct temperature and hold that temperature for a given time to get a complete cure. So not just the temperature of the air in the oven, but the actual object itself needs to reach that temp and hold it for a certain time.

I've also seen powder manufacturers not state that, too, so it appears to be a powder-specific requirement/non-requirement.

Again, I really am not trying to ruffle feathers or start an argument, just wanted to share a bit of information.

[Phlier]

Well let me just say thanks for all your help guys! I was able to go to the range for lunch today and did some tests. What I found was if I baked pc at 400 for total of 30 min zero leading. I baked another batch at 400 for 20 min had light leading. So I think what was happening with my 2 coat process is that the first coat was actually getting baked twiced wich lead to success. All this time all I had to do was leave them in for 10 more minutes. Oh yeah I was at an indoor range today and noticed that the under cured bullets had a smell to them that the fully cured ones did not. Maybe that is a way you can tell if they are cured properly.

That's great to hear! Always nice to get problems like this solved... especially if that problem is barrel leading!

[slide]

I like using the a.t.m. Ausglocks's thermocouple method. The way I am wired up it makes me feel better if I know I am getting as close as I can. There are some people who can do it without the thermocouple. If what you are doing works then do it. Experience is the best method!

[fredj338]

I PC once & size to 0.356". sometimes 0.357", 0.4015 in 40. never any leading issues using range scrap in 9mm, 40 & 45. I do water drop out of the oven, seems to surface harden just a bit. I bake 15m total in preheated 400deg oven.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I think the powder has to be at the temp. and the surface of the metal it is bonding to , I really do not see where the center would need to be at 400 , but I can see where the surface of the bullet needs to reach and hold a set temp. for a time to be fully bonded and cured to it , but then to each their own , what works for me may not for you , No I do not bake 2000 bullets as my oven is to small , I get between 200 to 300 depending if it is 9 40 or 45 on a tray 2 trays with a thermometer to watch temp , roughly 15 minutes oven reachs temp , powder has already flowed , set timer to 20 minutes set temp down to 400 continue loading next 2 trays , that is my routine , I try to cast coat and store as I load what has been cast and coated and on shelf 1 coat , no leading , I like coated , my dies like coated and my firearms like coated .