No lube grooves

[gumbo333]

Have you fellows found that PC'd boolits cast with no lube grooves shot more accurately than PC'd boolits that were cast with lube grooves? Or no difference? Seems like if you were moving towards shooting mostly PC'd or HyTek boolits those without lube grooves may be a touch more accurate. Just an inquiring mind who still enjoys learning. Thank you.

[bmortell]

previous threads and other places ive read seems kinda random results as accuracy often seems when comparing minor things. personally ive seen normal big lube groves obturate out with soft alloys so id prefer not having that happen. some argue lube groves give the lead somewhere to displace during sizing and the rifling squeezing it. when I get molds now I get tumble lube groves then after pc and sizing there small, not enough for obturating out to change things much but can still provide some displacement room if that matters, so I consider that a happy medium without downsides plus you still have the option to tumble lube if you cant PC for some reason.

[kevin c]

I've cast, coated, loaded to the same velocity and shot both types of the same weight through the same gun and not appreciated any difference. But I don't shoot Bullseye and don't use a Ransom rest so maybe my poor technique hides any real difference. And for my use, if it's that small it doesn't matter.

Given that, by definition each is a different type of boolit, likely loaded with changes in powder charge, OAL's, and resulting in altered leades in the gun, etc., any theoretical difference from more or less bore contact might just be one more small variable among many. IOW, you may not see a difference even though theoretically you might expect one.

[Froogal]

Doesn't eliminating the lube groove slightly change the weight of the bullet? Would it not be heavier if it did not have a lube groove?

[bmortell]

Doesn't eliminating the lube groove slightly change the weight of the bullet? Would it not be heavier if it did not have a lube groove?

ya but that's a good thing, an equal weight boolit with a lube grove needs to have that weight somewhere else, either more nose or more taking up your powder space, both of which are a negative, plus longer boolits are harder to stablize

[Wheelguns 1961]

I have and use both kinds of molds. I haven’t seen any major difference in accuracy between the two. There are pros and cons of the nlg molds. You do get a heavier bullet, but you also get increased bearing surface, and this will raise the pressure. You need to be careful with top end loads with a nlg bullet, especially if it is a long bullet. The bullets seem to fall from the mold easier with no lube groove. Then there is the sizing thing. This will make a bigger difference if you are sizing down several thousandths. Also, the resale of a nlg mold will be tougher because of a more limited market. I have had my best results with nlg bullets in 9mm. These are just my thoughts and experiences. YMMV. I will buy molds with lube grooves from now on.

[BamaNapper]

Doesn't eliminating the lube groove slightly change the weight of the bullet? Would it not be heavier if it did not have a lube groove?

You're absolutely correct, if they got rid of the lube grooves and left everything else the same, the bullet would be heavier. But you can imagine that by shortening the back of the bullet, even a little, the weight could be taken back off. The bullet length is the biggest factor in bullet weight for a specific caliber.

[Dragonheart]

The only problem I can see is all the off the shelf molds drop oversized bullets. When you PC this compounds the oversized bullet. When the bullet is sized metal is moved and has to go somewhere. Lube grooves help with a reservoir for the extra metal. Without grooves base first sizing would push the excess to the nose and nose first sizing to the base. I cannot see either case being desirable.

[gumbo333]

Thanks so much for the comment's. That answers some of my curiosity, I do not cast but do shoot cast. I have found PC'd and HyTek bullets to be very good when I get them sized right. Most use boolits with lube grooves.

[Dragonheart]

Thanks so much for the comment's. That answers some of my curiosity, I do not cast but do shoot cast. I have found PC'd and HyTek bullets to be very good when I get them sized right. Most use boolits with lube grooves.

Have you considered buying unlubed cast bullets, powder coating them and sizing them yourself. This would be an easy way to break into the process without going whole hog.

[tomme boy]

You can get away with NLG on pistol bullets, but not with rifle if you are going to run them anything over 1700fps. They have to have lube groves to displace the lead once they have engraved. If not they push out the lead at the base and causes all kinds of accuracy problems.

[Jhopson]

Most of the bullets that I produce are Hitek coated lube groove bullets. The reason is the cost of replacing the molds on a Magma machine with NLG is $800.00+ per mold profile. Plus I am a little “old school” in that I like the groove on the bullet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dragonheart]

Most of the bullets that I produce are Hitek coated lube groove bullets. The reason is the cost of replacing the molds on a Magma machine with NLG is $800.00+ per mold profile. Plus I am a little “old school” in that I like the groove on the bullet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't blame you I wouldn't do it either, especially in the light that no one to my knowledge has any test data to prove a NLG bullet performs any better, or worse for that matter.

[fredj338]

I would say there is potential for better accuracy as there are no imbalances in the bullet if the grooves are not filled out well or you get a bit too much PC in one place in a groove. For what I do, gun games out to 40y or so, it doesn't seem to matter that much.

[Dragonheart]

I would say there is potential for better accuracy as there are no imbalances in the bullet if the grooves are not filled out well or you get a bit too much PC in one place in a groove. For what I do, gun games out to 40y or so, it doesn't seem to matter that much.

Actually, I can't see this making any difference since all cast bullets are non-concentric (lopsided) when they come out of the mold. Sizing only makes the bullet round where it contacts the die, the rest of the bullet remains lopsided.

[popper]

not with rifle if you are going to run them anything over 1700fps False! I run 308W 2400 in carbine, 2700 in rifle,MOA @ 200, PC & no lube grooves. 2100 PB in BO carbine.

[tomme boy]

Popper, go tell everyone that over at the other site.

[popper]

They are aware. So far I cannot tell the difference, LG or not. My shooting is not that good. I did do MOA @ 200 with the AR10, just a tiny displacement groove in the boolit, ~10 thous. wide and deep. BO 145 I'm testing now only has the 'groove' of the GC shank. So far so good.

[Kraschenbirn]

I'm with Popper on this. My Savage M10LE produces sub-2 MOA at 2150 fps out to 300 but the boolit I'm using (Arsenal 309-188RN GC-PC) was designed for PC. Driving band and bore-rider nose drop .309 and .299, respectively, from my home-brewed Lyman #2 and I size to .310/.301 after coating. Jared, at Arsenal, reports users having success pushing this boolit up close to 3000 fps using Cu-enriched alloy.

Bill

[alamogunr]

Appreciate the comments on lube groove vs NLG. I have a 9mm lube groove mold and am signed up on a GB for a NLG mold for the same boolit. As mentioned in another post, my shooting ability won't prove one way or the other which is more or less accurate. Not sure what I intend to prove and may end up only using the lube groove boolit or using both and PC both.