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Thread: 30cal Plain Base gas checks.... Who uses them

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    30cal Plain Base gas checks.... Who uses them

    I'm wanting a Now mold that only comes plain Base. It may be fine without a gas check but I like the option of using one.

    Can anyone share thier experience with coated/Powder Coated bullets with Plain Base gas checks
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  2. #2
    My only experience is with 45 Cal plain base GC from Sages outdoors. I have to size twice to get the check to apply. Size to your finished diameter, pop the check on being careful that it's on the base square, then size again base first. If you have a spitzer bullet or anything not a flat point, it won't work.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I tried some a few years ago on 9mm without much success. Thanks for sharing your experience
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  4. #4
    I did try some prior to applying powder coat and it worked, but at that rate you're putting it through the sizer 3 times.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy KVO's Avatar
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    I tried some of the Sage's PB checks awhile back. Shooting loads ranging from .38 Special through full 357 magnum out of several revolvers off the bench at 25 yards the PB checked bullets were perhaps fractions of an inch tighter. I also have a Pat Marlin's 35 cal PB check maker but haven't played much with it yet. The Sage's checks are made out of thicker material (lithography plate?) than typical coke can checks. I also found it necessary to size first then then back thru with the checks on base first. I have an accurate (for a lever gun) LER scoped 357 Win '92 I eventually plan on testing out at 100yd. Overall though they seem like a poor return on the extra time investment.

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  6. #6
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    My time is getting more valuable the older I get.....
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy hockeynick39's Avatar
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    All I use are PB boolits and cut my own gas checks with Pat Marlin's dies. I usually put the checks on and size like normal. Put on the PC, bake, and load up. Sometimes I send them through the resizer, sometimes I don't. I use an Accurate 31-165R for .30-30 Win., .30-40 Krag, and .30-06 SPG and they work just fine! Accuracy is between 1"-2" at 100 yds and that's fine for hunting.

  8. #8
    If I need a check, I punch out one from a coffee can plastic lid or the flat thick bottom of soft drink plastic.
    Cut a little big, it will seat under the bullet.
    I dont want it to fall into thepowder.I have also glued them onto bullet base.
    Disc from aluminum can cut out and glued on would probably work too.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
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    Like this? Here I got both from soda and lithographic plate. Works best if you apply with lubrisizer but you can also use NOE sizer with nose punch in the shell holder. As far as accuracy I haven't tested thoroughly to make conclusion, also I only tested in 2000-2200fps range.

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  10. #10
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    I think it would be a waste of time, effort and money. If I was looking to make a cast bullet accurate I would select a bore rider design. Since a cast bullet is a lopsided bullet, a gas check or not does not correct this deficiency.

    I have tried several spitzer design cast bullets, a couple from NOE, and if you are satisfied with accuracy at 50 yards there OK. But if you want full power at 100 yards and beyond I have not been able to make that happen with a spitzer.

    The bore rider sized to fit the barrel swages the bullet when fired. If I could swage a spitzer to make it concentric then I might have something.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    ...Since a cast bullet is a lopsided bullet, a gas check or not does not correct this deficiency.

    I have tried several spitzer design cast bullets, a couple from NOE, and if you are satisfied with accuracy at 50 yards there OK. But if you want full power at 100 yards and beyond I have not been able to make that happen with a spitzer.

    The bore rider sized to fit the barrel swages the bullet when fired. If I could swage a spitzer to make it concentric then I might have something.
    Maybe you have a bad mold? My spitzer bullets are concentric. Now I had a theory that I actually heard from FortuneCookie45LC on youtube that a thick PC coat can coat the bullet uneven and make it unbalanced and it makes sense to me although I wasn't able to prove it so could be wrong. Recently I got some bullets that appeared Hiteck coated, I was amazed how thin the bullet was coated. This would be probably a good comparison. What bore rider would you recommend? I have 300 blk bolt gun.



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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimaprok View Post
    Maybe you have a bad mold? My spitzer bullets are concentric. Now I had a theory that I actually heard from FortuneCookie45LC on youtube that a thick PC coat can coat the bullet uneven and make it unbalanced and it makes sense to me although I wasn't able to prove it so could be wrong. Recently I got some bullets that appeared Hiteck coated, I was amazed how thin the bullet was coated. This would be probably a good comparison. What bore rider would you recommend? I have 300 blk bolt gun.



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    I wish the answer were as simple as a bad mold, but the spitzers I have cast come from NOE, H&G & Old Saeco molds which in my opinion are as good quality molds that can be found. My major was Industrial Engineering not physics, but as I know it, you are arguing against the pure physics of the casting and cooling process, not me or my take on things.

    When bullets are cast, liquid metal poured into the mold and cools to solidify, so it is constantly changing diameter from thermal expansion. When the mold is opened exposing it to ambient air temperature, the change will slightly warp the roundness of the mould. Additionally, two halves of a mould cannot be put together with zero tolerance, because you would not be able to open and close the mold again, so there is a degree of "Wiggle Room" in fitting the mold's pivot and the alignment pins. Combine these factors and a cast bullet will have a limit of roundness and diameter control based on the physics of the process, rather than skill of the user, the quality of mold manufacture or the alloy.

    If still in doubt, try putting some of your cast bullets on a concentricity gauge and watch the dial move. Now check a factory match bullet for comparison. You can size the bands and make the area where the die touches concentric by pushing metal one direction or the other. You can even size the nose of the bullet in a separate step, but the bullet still remains non-concentric (lopsided). Just as you can take two completely round circles like a laying a nickel on a quarter, both are round, but it does not mean they are concentric to each other.

    Physics is also the reason at full power and distance our as cast bullets do not perform; because they are lopsided. At some point in its flight a lopsided bullet is going to wobble, the greater the velocity and distance the greater the wobble and the greater loss of accuracy.

    Bama might not be the first, but certainly the first to post here about sizizing a bore rider bullets to fit the barrel. He went to a lot of effort to resize the bands and nose of his bullets to the lands and grooves dimensions of his barrel. His gas checks are seated completely flat and perpendicular. His finished cast and gas checked PC rifle bullets, although not perfect, were the best I have ever seen and measured; most definitely better than mine. When fired the barrel supports almost the entire length of the bore rider and acts like a swage to reform the bullet.

    I think the real answer to a spitzer design is a swaged GC & PC bullet that is reformed to make it concentric. Otherwise Bama has already proven that a properly sized, checked and PC bore rider is the better choice for accuracy at full power.

    When cooked Powder liquifies and flows. A liquid will seek a lower level, so if you bullets are in a pile guess what? I PC spray rifle bullets to make my coating as uniform as possible. I cook all my bullets standing on their base to keep my coating uniform and to allow the PC to help heal an imperfect cast base. I double coat rifle bullets the try to obtain a 3 mill build out.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check