Interesting how many small and underpowered cartridges have been used over the years

[tazman]

Hard to think of the 45-70 as being insufficient for anything on this continent, even with it's original loads.
This only happens when you compare it to modern magnum cartridges.
There was a time when a 50 caliber round ball over black powder was considered adequate for anything you were going to shoot.
Everything is subjective.

[nikonuser]

Hard to think of the 45-70 as being insufficient for anything on this continent, even with it's original loads.
This only happens when you compare it to modern magnum cartridges.
There was a time when a 50 caliber round ball over black powder was considered adequate for anything you were going to shoot.
Everything is subjective.

if the old 45-70 was still considered good as is, on the same animals as it was in 1880. Then they would not have 3 power levels in the reloading books for it.

[nikonuser]

most handguns were sold for dog defense, and most men who rode a horse had one in the case they were getting drug by a horse they could try to blow its brains out, and ive they were busted up to much their own. Same for wagon drivers

[roadie]

if the old 45-70 was still considered good as is, on the same animals as it was in 1880. Then they would not have 3 power levels in the reloading books for it.

Strange, I would have thought a .45 caliber hole in the 1880's was still a .45 caliber hole now........and most times there's 2 holes.

The 3 power levels apply to differing strengths of firearms, it's still a big hole, no matter how you look at it.

I don't think modern game animals are able to shrug off a hole that big, especially with a solid hit, any better than they did in 1880.

A bad hit with any cartridge is still a bad hit, no matter if it's an "insufficient" 45-70, or a highly overrated Magnum.

[tazman]

if the old 45-70 was still considered good as is, on the same animals as it was in 1880. Then they would not have 3 power levels in the reloading books for it.

Everyone tries to "improve" a cartridge. How many cartridges did Ackley "improve"? How many people blow guns up every year trying to get more performance out of them just because they can?
The 45-70 was adequate the way it was. Someone wanted a more powerful cartridge. I used to be that way. Now I just want accurate and pleasant to shoot.

[Traffer]

My Mom was a ER Supervisor nurse. See told me one time they removed a .22 bullet
from someone that didn't have the usual rifling marks.
It caught her eye that there were powder burns from a gunshot, but no rifling marks on the slug.

A few years later, I was talking to a cop buddy and mentioned it to him.
He explained how it was done, and said they saw cases like that on occasion in the inner city.

We used to make zip guns out of car antenna's. They were common in the cities. No rifling marks.

[woodbutcher]

Something that worked even better than the antennas was a SBC pushrod.Saw many .22 rf chambers repaired using a piece of one to reline a bad chamber.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo