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Thread: When is a lie a sin

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    If an action is necessary, it is not evil. There are many scenarios where a lie is necessary to prevent harm to others.
    Well said.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master flyingmonkey35's Avatar
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    So when your wife asks of that dress makes her look fat.

    Is it a lie when you tell her she is beautiful no matter what she wears.

    Even if the dress is horribly fitted?

    Was it a sin for me to tell a grieving father that hes son died when he fell down the stairs. Not because he tripped and landed on him trying to save him?

    Lies are a double edged sword.

    Be as truthful as you can but be tactful with the truth.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    If telling a lie in the face of Evil will save lives, I will do it every time. I have to live with my actions, not you. God will decide if I was righteous.


    Remember,

    "Let He who is without malice cast the first stone"

  4. #24
    Boolit Master


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    BTW, I attend an Evangelical church and we are constantly bombarded by how evil and sinful we are. I get tired of it. The pastor is excellent in every other way or I would leave. This thread reminds me of how silly it can get. Lying to save someone or telling a white lie to ease distress is NOT A SIN. There is no sinful intent.

    I realize it is necessary for churches to put us down so they can lead us to salvation...and to get us to contribute money so they can "spread the word" about how wicked man is. They need funds to bring others to Jesus and build bigger and "better" faculties. One giant guilt trip.

    When an innocent white lie, or telling a lie to save others is turned into sin, it shows how indoctrinated some have become.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Isnít a lie by omission still a lie?
    Uncle Sam is known to do this...a lot.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Rahab? Jos 2:3-4
    And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.
    And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:

    Jas 2:24-26

    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    Thus says the word. Now, figure out where you fit in!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Is a "lie" always a sin? Welll ... a lot of people ignore the fact that God examines our hearts more than the deeds we may do, meaning He's much more concerned about why we do things than what we do....
    While 1hole and I often differ I agree with him on this. The commandments wording is iffy and really I think the key word is against. We need to be for the good not against our neighbors. If you lie in the service of good I don't think it is a sin. Like 1hole said it is more about why you did what you did than it is about the letter of some law that is subject to interpretation. God knows why you did what you did better than you do.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  8. #28
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    All lies are sins even those done for a good reasonName:  download.jpg
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    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

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  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    All lies are sins even those done for a good reasonName:  download.jpg
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    The commandment does not even mention lies. Nobody is trying to change scripture, just trying to understand it. Quote us some scripture with the word lie.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Nobody is trying to change scripture, just trying to understand it.

    Tim
    More times than not, it does not matter what end of the ******* you talk to, the words just don't get in.
    Last edited by ShooterAZ; 01-04-2020 at 11:02 AM. Reason: language censor bypass
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    I posted up scriptural evidence of a woman who lied, and another scriptural reference where it's said she was justified, and no one can comment on the scriptures, just bicker back and forth. These scriptures, seem to me, to support that why we do something, is at least as important as what we do.

  12. #32
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    One does not have to be a theologian to discover how God feels about lying. All one needs is a concordance and one will find an abundance of verses where God condemns lying. Here is a small sample.

    “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16).

    “You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another” (Leviticus 19:11).

    “You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man” (Psalms 5:6).

    “Let the lying lips be put to silence, Which speak insolent things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous” (Psalms 31:18).

    “The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies” (Psalms 58:3).

    “He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house; he who tells lies shall not continue in my presence” (Psalms 101:7).

    “Deliver my soul, oh LORD, from lying lips And from a deceitful tongue” (Psalms 120:2).

    “Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD, But those who deal truthfully are his delight” (Proverbs 12:22).

    “A faithful witness does not lie, But a false witness will utter lies” (Proverbs 14:5).

    “A true witness delivers souls, But a deceitful witness speaks lies” (Proverbs 14:25).

    “A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who speaks lies shall perish” (Proverbs 19:9).

    “Getting treasures by a lying tongue Is the fleeting fantasy of those who seek death” (Proverbs 21:6).

    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44).

    “Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds” (Colossians 3:9).

    “And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell” (James 3:6).

    “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” Revelation 21:8).

    .
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

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  13. #33

  14. #34
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    I posted up scriptural evidence of a woman who lied, and another scriptural reference where it's said she was justified, and no one can comment on the scriptures, just bicker back and forth. These scriptures, seem to me, to support that why we do something, is at least as important as what we do.
    There is also the story of the Hebrew midwives that lied to Pharaoh and were blessed for doing so.

    Decades later, Moses was directed by God to ask Pharaoh to allow the Hebrews to leave Egypt for a few days to worship God and return, while the true intention was for them to leave permanently.

    Even wilder is the lying spirit sent by God to deceive Ahab in Kings and the strong delusion that will be sent by God per Thessalonians.

    Often these types of things (i.e., prohibited behaviors) are not as black and white as we'd like them. But often people have their theology set early in life and are very hard to convince that it might need to be tweaked a bit as they mature.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master



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    Remember folks the Bible does not contradict itself.
    If it says two different things you missed something.
    As one Matures in the word you should never stop learning.
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

    NRA
    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

  16. #36
    Boolit Master



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    https://www.christiancourier.com/art...ives-for-lying

    It is incorrect to say that God rewarded the midwives for lying. The Bible does not affirm that conclusion. The Lord blessed them for their refusal to kill baby boys — for their interest in obeying God rather than man.
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

    NRA
    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    The Eighth Commandment condemns lying Purpose of the Commandments was (is) to prove to US that we are sinners! We spend time (wasted) trying to justify our actions. We don't get to do that. We don't make the rules nor are we the judge! Midwives were lying to cover the fact that they didn't want to murder Israelite babies! We don't know if they asked forgiveness for the lie!
    Try this one - https://www.kingofsalem.com/about-us.html - interesting, Christ is a woman?
    Or was Melchisedec actually Jesus come to earth?
    Scripture tells ME what is expected of ME. With historical references to those who did and didn't.
    Don, would you rather hear that we are all sinners or 'everybody goes to Heaven'? Which is a lie? I know sometimes it can get overbearing.
    Whatever!

  18. #38
    Boolit Master


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    My Pastor told us to be wary of those who quote scripture. His rationale was that things can be taken out of context. This is not an uncommon way to justify and accept contradictions in the Bible.

    Most of us pick and chose what we want the Bible to tell us. One of my pet peeves is when I am told a Bible passage has not been translated "correctly", and this is what it really means...… Our Pastor does that quite a bit. It raises a red flag most of the time and encourages me to study in more depth...a good thing!

    Well, I am not prepared to learn Greek or Hebrew. So the Bible says what is says unless someone has a really good argument otherwise.

    DCP, none of the quotes in your post suggest a white lie or a lie to do good are sins. Context is important.

    popper,
    I hear we are sinners every sermon and normally more than once a sermon. I get it...yes we are sinners. I am tired of being brow beaten by the fact. God made us sinners...heck He created evil. He created EVERYTHING! We do not know why God created evil but one cannot believe God is omnipotent and conclude He did not create everything including evil.

    We cannot even get the "original sin" right. It was not Adam and Eve who committed the original sin. The original sin was Pride and it caused not only Lucifer but 1/3 of the angels to be cast from heaven.

    Religion (maybe mostly the Evangelical church I attend) needs to beat us down. God does not do that.
    Last edited by dverna; 01-04-2020 at 11:55 AM.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  19. #39
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    My Pastor told us to be wary of those who quote scripture. His rationale was that things can be taken out of context. This is not an uncommon way to justify and accept contradictions in the Bible.

    Most of us pick and chose what we want the Bible to tell us. One of my pet peeves is when I am told a Bible passage has not been translated "correctly", and this is what it really means...… Our Pastor does that quite a bit. It raises a red flag most of the time and encourages me to study in more depth...a good thing!

    Well, I am not prepared to learn Greek or Hebrew. So the Bible says what is says unless someone has a really good argument otherwise.

    DCP, none of the quotes in your post suggest a white lie or a lie to do good are sins. Context is important.
    All lies are sins
    All sins are equal
    Only one sin is unforgivable- unbelief
    To be forgiven you must ask for forgiveness
    The wage of sin is death.
    Christ paid for our sins with his blood



    Jesus died for our sins,
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
    Theodore Roosevelt

    NRA
    BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER

  20. #40
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by DCP View Post
    https://www.christiancourier.com/art...ives-for-lying

    It is incorrect to say that God rewarded the midwives for lying. The Bible does not affirm that conclusion. The Lord blessed them for their refusal to kill baby boys — for their interest in obeying God rather than man.
    The reason they could avoid killing the babies and continue to do so was because of the lies they told when questioned. To say they were blessed for not killing babies but condemned for the means they used is splitting hairs and missing the big picture.

    The big picture is that very few behaviors are absolutely wrong at all times. It depends on whether or not the action will hurt someone and what a person's motivation is. The Pharisees were under the impression that Jesus wrongly broke the Sabbath when he healed people. Technically he was working on the Sabbath which broke the letter of the Law. But he was doing good and that was more important.

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