What mold for .450 Express?

[ChrisPer]

I have acquired a .500/.450 No1 Express 2 3/4" double rifle that hasn't been shot in forever. Got cases, now looking for projectiles.

The original used 260gn up, RNFP paper patched, ahead of about 110gn black powder. I want to use similar designs in the hope it will regulate more easily, and because I prefer it to look old-fashioned.

I have done chamber casts and slugged the bore, its .458 groove diameter.

Can anyone recommend a mold for this job?

[StrawHat]

First, welcome to the forum.

If you are going to patch the bullet, you might be able to use a bullet intended for the 45 Colt.

Most of the makers offer one about 255 grains or so.

Good luck.

Photos would be nice, they keep us from getting stagnation of the brain.

[ChrisPer]

Yes! the .450 to 452 diameter would be a good start.
Pics - good idea!



Rifle: The bore shot was after doing chamber cast and without cleaning - the bores have a nice gloss (and a few pits).

[dubber123]

A paper patched 452190 Lyman would look very similar. Rn with a small meplat, weighs around 260 grs. Very envious of your rifle by the way....

[Larry Gibson]

The RCBS 325-325-FN-U would be my choice. I'd get Lee .452 and .457 sizers. Cast the bullets soft, lube with a water based lube like Lee's and push them trough the .457 and then the .452, wash them off and then PP. Nice rifle, you lucky dog!

Larry Gibson

[ChrisPer]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys! I have been looking at the molds online and they are very promising.

The rifle came my way by luck - it was in the local classified adverts, where you might see three or four rifles of any kind each week - I had never seen a double of any kind there. I always wanted one since trying someone's .577 Snider double at the Big Game Rifle Club, and when I saw it I didn't even know what calibre it was, it looked tight and OK to shoot so I put my $ down before anyone could beat me to it. Had the fever...

[NoDakJak]

Congratulations on acquiring a fine rifle. How about giving us some more of the particulars on it. Who manufactured it? Approximately when. Probably about 1890/1910. What are you using for brass? I used Bell for my 450/400, 3 1/4" Nitro express but alas, Bell is no more. One thing is for sure. You may have years of pleasant and otherwise experimenting ahead with this round. The number of bullets and powder combinations with this round is astronomical. Don't forget to use black powder and it's substitutes in your quest. With this huge case and small boolit a filler is almost certainly requlired. With my 450/400 I used Grits and won a couple of matches before I was banned because the Daniel Fraser , Falling Block did not use an outside hammer. Today I would use drier lint rather than grits as it is lighter, with less recoil and seems to work very well. You certainly should not neglect the use of paper patched boolits either. My 450/400 seemed to prefer 300 grain boolits patched with two wraps of teflon thread tape. I could go on for a while but don't want to over whelm you. Have fun and keep us posted. Neil

[ChrisPer]

Sounds great NoDakJak!

I have 40 Bertram cases, and plan on using both BP and Nitro for Black loads with dacron filler. I won't use BP substitutes though.

I have been warned against the teflon tape patch by some experienced people, but your milage etc. I plan to use 50gsm rag paper, about 0.0025" thick like the websites say if I can find some economical supply.

[ChrisPer]

The rifle itself is a THomas Turner, has Turner's Patent Rifling, and a number of repair issues. I believe one or both the hammers are replacements, and the LH jhammer needs the half-cock notch cut as it drops when the trigger is pulled. The soldering is separated for the front 6" of the barrels so I don't know WHAT it will shoot like. The three rear sight leaves have aplatinum line in the centre of each, and the engraving is fine. The wood-metal fit on the tang is wrong, and I think the butt is a restock. But the bores are excellent, OK the bores ore pretty good, the lockup pretty tight (one 4 thou bit of paper will lock it mega-tight), no-one has peened the lumps, and the finish is such that there is no penalty for destroying a fine collector rifle if I make a mistake.

Interestingly, the buttplate appears to be made of horn.

There was a significantly better Turner double on Gunbroker a couple of months ago, asking $4900. I like mine, and would like to see another Turner or two - maybe one of those Confederate .451 Enfields and a Snider if the planets aligned.

[NoDakJak]

Sounds good. You might want to get the barrels re-soldered before you fire any full loads through it just to be on the safe side. I can think of no good reason why the joint would be seperating other than corrosion beneath the solder. Even so, I have green eyes since I saw your pictures of the rifle. Good luck. Neil