Dumb Mosin throat question

[drac0nic]

So I have some ammo for my Mosin (I think it's Hungarian marked 21 87) and LPS steel core ball and it jams into the rifling on my M44. You can see the marks clearly when you chamber a round. Is this a safety issue? The thing kicks like a mule compared to my 91/30. Just wondering.

[LAGS]

I had some 202 gr SP hunting ammo that I bought for my Mosins.
I had to push the projectiles back a few M M's to keep it firing without causing major kicking because the bullets were hitting the lands when chambered.
You might try pushing the bullet back a bit.
The issue I had was,
If I chambered a round , then had to eject it before firing was , the bullet STUCK in the Rifling , and pulled loose when the round was ejected.
Big safety factor.
And a PITA if hunting.
Safety first.
These rounds may be loaded for a "D" throat rifle

[drac0nic]

Interesting. I'm wondering if there's another ammunition with a better profile like Wolf or something else; I have a spam can plus some of surplus still but I don't shoot it a ton just because of the corrosive ammo and the recoil truthfully.

[nicholst55]

I had to quit shooting my M44 due to the recoil, and eventually sold it. That rifle just beat the snot out of me - after 10 rounds, I was done for the day. This was years ago, and I wasn't set up to reload for it at the time. Reduced loads probably would have helped a lot.

[LAGS]

I love shooting my M-44 and Chinese M-53 with cast loads.
Now.
I put on one of those a Aftermarket Recoil pads on both of mine.
The intent was to lengthen the Pull.
A rifle with too short of Pull Kicks More.
The pads I installed don't do much for Cushioning.
But the recoil was drastically reduced by lengthing the pull for me since I have long arms.
But I started off back in 1976 with the Mosins.
I could not find any ammo except Surplus " Ocassionally ".
To go the cheap rout to reduce the loads I bought an Inertia Puller Hammer and Lee " Classic Reloader "
I still use them even though I have three presses and two sets of dies in that caliber.
Don't Sweat the Corrosive Primers.
Just learn to clean your rifle well.
Heck , how many rounds of Corrosive ammo were shot thru your rifle before it was imported.
And the rifle survived just fine.

[Earlwb]

I think that somewhere along the line they had switched from heavier and longer 210, 220 grain bullets to the shorter more light bullets of 147, 148 and 150 grain weights. Thus the more current rifles likely have the rifling setup for the light weight bullets. The throats changed starting in 1908 or so. You might want to weigh and measure a bullet from one of the cartridges that has the jamming into the rifling problem. If you do have the longer heavier bullets, you could pull the bullets and reload with a modern propellant or maybe reduce the charge a little bit and set the bullets in more deeply into the cartridge case. I had a vague memory of some country using bullets weighing around 175 grains in the past.

[GhostHawk]

I would recommend a pound cast of that throat.

My mosin had chambering issues, eventually I bought a 6mm borescope (evilbay, 14$) and I went and took a good look. There was zero leade/throat. Where the neck of the brass stopped was a edge that was a sharp 90 degree corner. That had lead icicles hanging on it. Any 150 grain or larger cast boolit was getting chewed up judt getting chambered.

I used a hardwood dowel carved to shape, with a slot in the end, jammed some 0000 steel wool in there, chucked it up in my drill. Five min later that square corner was a nice smooth radius. No more chambering issues, and accuracy jumped from crap to acceptable instantly.

Look at that throat! Find out what you have to deal with and load accordingly.

[tomme boy]

That is what the gun should be shooting. The way the stock is designed is the reason it kicks the way it does. The hog back style smacks you in the cheek and makes you think it is kicking more than it really is. And the blast also makes you think it has more kick.

You want to feel a kick, shoot a 12ga with slugs. Way worse than any Mosin made.

[44magLeo]

I have some Yugoslav ammo that uses a 180 gr lead core bullet. I have a friend that had some other stuff with 148 gr steel core bullets. The profile outside of the case was very close to the same.
I'm no expert on this but I think once they went from the old 210 gr bullet to the later 150 gr spritzer bullet they had all the ammo loaded with bullets that had the same shape no matter what the weight. That way all the rifles could use the ammo.
With your rifle it does sound like it could be short throated. Have you tried other brands of ammo? Does all ammo do this or is it just one kind?
If you reload then adjusting things so the bullet won't jam the rifling is easy.
If you do load it wouldn't be hard to just seat the bullets a bit deeper till they didn't jam the rifling.
Pulling the bullets and checking the charge weights then backing that charge down 1 or2 grs won't hurt anything. Careful weighing and reloading may get you better accuracy. I have torn down some of the surplus ammo I have and found the charge weights can vary quite a bit. Some weigh more than a 1/2 gr off from low to high. Not the best for accuracy.
Tearing a few down you can check the bullet weight. In the info I have access to your ammo is steel case with a lacquer coating. It has a 148.8 gr steel core spizter boat tail bullet. In a M44 it should get about 2700 fps velo. A bit more in longer barrels.
Leo

[Catch22]

I would recommend a pound cast of that throat.

My mosin had chambering issues, eventually I bought a 6mm borescope (evilbay, 14$) and I went and took a good look. There was zero leade/throat. Where the neck of the brass stopped was a edge that was a sharp 90 degree corner. That had lead icicles hanging on it. Any 150 grain or larger cast boolit was getting chewed up judt getting chambered.

I used a hardwood dowel carved to shape, with a slot in the end, jammed some 0000 steel wool in there, chucked it up in my drill. Five min later that square corner was a nice smooth radius. No more chambering issues, and accuracy jumped from crap to acceptable instantly.

Look at that throat! Find out what you have to deal with and load accordingly.

I've ran into several that had nasty chambers caked up with all kinds of stuff. Cleaning up the chamber and throat may do wonders if it's nasty.

You can also take a bore brush and chuck it in a drill to do the cleaning. It may not polish up as well as steel wool, but it'll clean any built up gunk and help things out.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try some different ammo. With the weight ranges surplus had, there could be some differences in ogive and all that will cause one type to chamber fine and others to do what you're experiencing.

[LAGS]

I have taken my 7.62x54 chamber reamer and ran it into the chamber very gently.
The intent was to clean up the carbon build up in the throat ONLY.
It worked well and on 90 percent of the rifles I did that to , made it easier to open the bolt after firing a round.
Before , you just about had to pound the bolt open with a 2x4

[Mr_Sheesh]

Just remember that if you seat the bullet deeper that will increase chamber pressure - so back off to starting loads and redo load workup if you do that. Mild paranoia is your friend here

[44magLeo]

He's got surplus ammo. He's not loading it.
With the bullet jammed in the rifling the bullet won't move as pressure builds, this causes the pressure to build to a much higher pressure than it should. By seating the bullet back off the lands about .025 or so will allow the bullet to move before the pressure gets to high, As the bullet moves the volume increases. This lets the pressure build as it should.
With a cartridge this size seating the bullet .05 deeper won't make much difference in max pressure.
In a small case like a pistol case seating that much deeper can increase pressure by a lot.
Have you measured the cartridges over all length? Should be about 3.037. If you can try seating back to about 3.015 or so.
Leo