30 Carbine or 30 Apache

[JM7.7x58]

There used to be a tv show on MTV called “Pimp My Ride”. They would do over the top custom jobs on pintos and escorts! You could do something similar, with a common Plain Jane bolt action.

How about taking a Savage 340 in 30-30 and doing a full blown custom job. You could have the action blue printed, the bolt jeweled, fluted barrel, have a great stock made (walnut with stop you in your tracks figure), polished and blued (Weatherby style), install high end European glass (Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss).

I’m only half joking. This could really be a great rig. And many will agree that there are few 30 cal cartridges that have as nice a neck, for shooting cast, as the 30-30. Also a very efficient case capacity for shooting cast .30 cal bullets.

JM

[Larry Gibson]

As I mentioned before I'd go with the 30 Apache in either action for the 223 Cartridge as the mag and feeding should not be a problem. With the 14' barrel Jacketed bullets are readily available in appropriate bullet weights for reliable terminal performance. With cast bullets a lot of 30 cal bullets from 77 gr up through 170 gr would be quite usable.

I've killed numerous coyotes and 7 deer with the 30 carbine out of M1 Carbines with excellent terminal results. Using correct bullets, both cast and jacketed, is the key. I've a nice M70 XTR in .223 That I keep thinking I'll rebarrel to 30 Apache as it would be a very efficient "walk about" rifle cartridge …..if I ever get the 223 barrel shot out...…..

[fiberoptik]

As I mentioned before I'd go with the 30 Apache in either action for the 223 Cartridge as the mag and feeding should not be a problem. With the 14' barrel Jacketed bullets are readily available in appropriate bullet weights for reliable terminal performance....…..

What kind of performance dies a 14 Foot barrel give???


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[popper]

Couple years ago I tried making 40WT from 223, wasn't very successful. Anneal first expand carefully to prevent split necks. Works but you are stretching the neck pretty thin. I could make 40WT ok by sizing, then cutting off the neck only, then expanding the shoulder left (still annealed). Apache would be tougher. IIRC, starline is making straight walled 223 cases now that you could use for 300 hamer, apache, etc with out much trouble.
My walking around 'rifle' is now a 10" BO pistol with 3x scope, 10 rnd mag. Light weight, easy to carry without getting in the way and good for any 110-185gr bullet with appropriate load. friend & I did 2moa @ 85-100 sighting the scope using the back of a 4wheeler as front bag. 150gr ~ 2k fps.
Thought about a BWT covert comp for it but would be too long to be legal. Does throw flash and noise forward.

[sundog]

300 Ham'r brass is readily available from Wilson Combat, Starline, and probably some of the etailers. I've made 7.62x40WT from LC 5.56, and while it came out good and functions well, it is very time consuming.

[popper]

Made 40WT by sizing first (BO die set right), then cutting off the remaining neck. Anneal then expand the shoulder left. Lee 243 spud first then BO. Then trim and neck size. Don't know where the 'shoulder' would be on the apache and if it needed to be reamed out.
40WT (optimized for 125gr bullets) gives IIRC 2 gr more powder, apache probably 3? Way more than the 16gr 2400 I use for 'walking around' light 30/30 load.

[dverna]

Unfortunately, factories do not make what I want so there is really no choice. I have built or payed someone to build, about a dozen rifles and several handguns that were not available from the big name makers.

Do you also feel wildcat cartridges are a waste of time and money?

Kevin

In general a resounding YES! But that is likely due to my limited needs and a fair degree of pragmatism. I have gone from having dozens of rifles to fill every possible niche I once imagined. In the end, I found I was mostly shooting .22's, .223/5.56, .308 and .38/.357's. I kept the .30/30's (in case AR's are banned) and a .300 WinMag, for specific reasons, but rid myself of the other stuff.

I need rifles to kill people if the SHTF (10-800 yards). I need rifles to hunt coyotes, deer and bear and possibly elk (15-400 yards). Squirrels and rabbits get the .22's. I need rifles to shoot for fun...which get the greatest amount of use.

I justified all sorts of other calibers in my younger years. Been there so I understand the attraction. In the end, I did not need them. I was lucky enough to never acquire a wildcat but came close to having a .280 AI made and also looked at the .30 Badger. Common sense kicked in.

I find it hard to believe you cannot find a commercial gun in a standard caliber that will not serve you well. Good luck!

Luckily, I am in the minority or the gun industry would collapse...LOL

[StrawHat]

In general a resounding YES! But that is likely due to my limited needs and a fair degree of pragmatism. I have gone from having dozens of rifles to fill every possible niche I once imagined. In the end, I found I was mostly shooting .22's, .223/5.56, .308 and .38/.357's. I kept the .30/30's (in case AR's are banned) and a .300 WinMag, for specific reasons, but rid myself of the other stuff.

I need rifles to kill people if the SHTF (10-800 yards). I need rifles to hunt coyotes, deer and bear and possibly elk (15-400 yards). Squirrels and rabbits get the .22's. I need rifles to shoot for fun...which get the greatest amount of use.

I justified all sorts of other calibers in my younger years. Been there so I understand the attraction. In the end, I did not need them. I was lucky enough to never acquire a wildcat but came close to having a .280 AI made and also looked at the .30 Badger. Common sense kicked in.

I find it hard to believe you cannot find a commercial gun in a standard caliber that will not serve you well. Good luck!

Luckily, I am in the minority or the gun industry would collapse...LOL

I understand what you are saying. You are correct, there is probably a factory rifle that would work. As a matter of fact, the CZ 527 and the Savage Varminter are both available in 223. I have heard the 223 is used on coyote so those are possibilities. I have a 22 Hornet that might work, (built on a Springfield 1922 action so heavier than I would like to carry.) Everything else I own is over 40 caliber, so a little big for a walking around piece.

When I was younger I enjoyed muzzle loaders. Unfortunately, I built most of mine because the replica industry did not then make a decent long rifle. That spoiled me as those rifle were built to my tastes. None were what you would call fancy but had nice wood and good sights. Those tastes carried over to cartridge firearms.

Kevin

[charlie b]

I like wildcats and will get a 6BR in the next year or two.

But, my .223 I would consider a perfect mid range coyote rifle, especially with heavier bullets. Get a faster twist barrel.

PS mid range is 300-600yd

[Larry Gibson]

What kind of performance dies a 14 Foot barrel give???


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Yup, my bad...…..

I wasn't referring to the length of the barrel but the twist …. referring to the 14" twist rate for the 30 Apache which will handle cast bullets then up through a 311041...….

[dverna]

I understand what you are saying. You are correct, there is probably a factory rifle that would work. As a matter of fact, the CZ 527 and the Savage Varminter are both available in 223. I have heard the 223 is used on coyote so those are possibilities. I have a 22 Hornet that might work, (built on a Springfield 1922 action so heavier than I would like to carry.) Everything else I own is over 40 caliber, so a little big for a walking around piece.

When I was younger I enjoyed muzzle loaders. Unfortunately, I built most of mine because the replica industry did not then make a decent long rifle. That spoiled me as those rifle were built to my tastes. None were what you would call fancy but had nice wood and good sights. Those tastes carried over to cartridge firearms.

Kevin

I truly like the CZ....you will not go wrong with it. I was all set to buy one when I found a Howa mini-Mauser for $350. Another decent choice for your needs. Trim little package too unless you put a huge scope on it.

[fastdadio]

There used to be a tv show on MTV called “Pimp My Ride”. They would do over the top custom jobs on pintos and escorts! You could do something similar, with a common Plain Jane bolt action.

How about taking a Savage 340 in 30-30 and doing a full blown custom job. You could have the action blue printed, the bolt jeweled, fluted barrel, have a great stock made (walnut with stop you in your tracks figure), polished and blued (Weatherby style), install high end European glass (Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss).

I’m only half joking. This could really be a great rig. And many will agree that there are few 30 cal cartridges that have as nice a neck, for shooting cast, as the 30-30. Also a very efficient case capacity for shooting cast .30 cal bullets.

JM

^^^This^^^ Close the thread.

[GARD72977]

Rarely does a factory rifle give me what I'm wanting. Most often the make a mess of the chamber and throat followed by a do it all fast twist. The older I get the less I want a factory rifle. I'm not the guy that buys a 357max so I can shoot 38/357/max. If I want a 38spl I will buy a 38spl

I say rebarrel it to exactly what you want and never look back.

[charlie b]

ROFLMAO

GARD, if you look at what you wrote and then your signature line it seems a bit contradictory

[GARD72977]

ROFLMAO

GARD, if you look at what you wrote and then your signature line it seems a bit contradictory

If you think that's funny dont get up off the floor yet. I bought a Ruger Precision in 308 when they first came out. I had it rebarrelled before I ever shot it. I knew I wouldn't be happy with it having a factory barrel. I ordered a Bartlein 5r barrel custom throated for 178 gr A max.
It shoots pretty good.

I bought a Ruger Precision in 223/556 with the intention of rebarrelling to 223 improved. I didn't rebarrel it because it out shoots my 308......

[rockrat]

I would go with the 30 apache with a 700 action. I use 300 BO dies to load mine, a single shot XR100. I rechambered a 300 BO barrel I had got from Northland Shooters(Remage nut). Fun to shoot.

[StrawHat]

...I would go with the 30 apache with a 700 action...

The 700 action is much bigger than I would consider for this project. I am looking at something like the CZ 527 or even the Savage Model 25 (the new one).

Kevin

[adcoch1]

30 apache all the way, and while I have a serious love affair with the cz527 I would probably use a Remington model 7 compact for the bolt gun. Let me explain why. Before I knew it was called 30 apache, I was messing around with this idea and made some dummy rounds. All of the bullets I could find to put in those cases either wouldn't, or would just barely fit but not feed in a cz527. I would want to shoot more than a 30 carbine bullet in an apache so a longer action would be needed for me. But any 300 blk bolt gun could be reamed to the apache, you just need to find a barrel with the twist you like.

[RU shooter]

A Rem 600/ Mohawk would also make a nice lightweight platform seems their easier to come by than a model 7 least in my neck of the woods

[charlie b]

Off topic

If you think that's funny dont get up off the floor yet. I bought a Ruger Precision in 308 when they first came out. I had it rebarrelled before I ever shot it. I knew I wouldn't be happy with it having a factory barrel. I ordered a Bartlein 5r barrel custom throated for 178 gr A max.
It shoots pretty good.

I bought a Ruger Precision in 223/556 with the intention of rebarrelling to 223 improved. I didn't rebarrel it because it out shoots my 308......

Not laughing too much

I bought a cheap Axis in .223 a couple years ago just to try out rifle shooting again. I figured if it shot badly a new barrel would not cost much.

After a couple hundred rounds it was a 1/2MOA rifle (and that's probably because I can't shoot any better right now ).

But, my 12 in .308 will get a Bartlein barrel in the near future, but probably in 6BR or something similar.