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Thread: Rossi 92 in 44-40 lsome basic questions

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Rossi 92 in 44-40 lsome basic questions

    Goodmorning to you all,

    I haven't been on the forum much since I only was loading for my original Danish rolling block, but I do have some questions now.

    Living in Europe does have some advantages, but for guns, it's not the best place to be. So I ordered a Rossi m65 20"(or 92 as it is called in the US) in 44-40 and I will receive it in about 8 months...
    The gun will be used against "dangerous paper targets" at 50 meters (~55 yards?) up to 100 meters. I know the gun is decently strong (as far as lever actions go).
    I will shoot both smokeless (I guess unique) and real black powder with it (no subs, as that doesn't make sens as it's is more expensive then both smokeless or real black).
    Most likely I will stick with a Lee 6 cavity 200 grain rnfp mold (molds are expensive over here and most shops in the US don't ship outside the US, not sure why though) I have been eyebowling the accurate 6 cavity mold with 2 designs, but that would go up in price to approximate 180,- USD with shipping and taxes... same goes for the spring kits (I like the stuff that Steve Guns sells for the Rossi, but they are made from Unobtanium if you live outside the US
    I do powder coat, my own cast, boolits for the main reason to avoid touching lead as much as possible and to avoid tacky smokeless..
    So my questions are:
    -As I PC all the boolits, would a felt grease wad (tallow) be sufficient for BP to keep the fouling soft?
    -Do I need to size the brass if I only use it in one riffle? (I will purchase the Lee 44-40 die set)
    -I want to use the powder through expander die with my Lee auto drum, will it expand enough for fat lead at .429 or .430? Or can I modify the expander part of it with a 44 mag?
    -Is the factory crimp die worth the additional 25,-?

    Thanks already and please bear with me for my bad English.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    On the dies the crimp is worth it as tube mags tend to want to push your boolit in Deeper. Your barrel is probably a .430 44mag barrel but you should slug it to be sure. The model 92 is a group 2 strong action so it can withstand higher pressure loads witch are listed in the Lyman book have fun and straight shooting

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I use standard Lee dies and size my 200gr rnfp bullets to .429”. I have used PC as well as Lee lube. I use a upper mid range charge of Unique. My barrel is a Green Mountain stub on an H&R single shot. I would recommend getting the Rossi in hand first, then tailor your ammo to fit. Please don’t load a large batch only to find they won’t chamber( don’t ask how I know this). I hope your Rossi is a good one from the start. I’ve had a few and they all needed action work to make them proper. The 62 SRC Puma 44-40 was a gem- once I got the bugs worked out. The CAS shooter that sold it to me HAD to have it back( and payed accordingly)- so its gone and I miss it.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Your English is just fine - Welcome to the board !

    As posted earlier, you should slug the bore (pure lead fishing sinker) to be sure, as .44 Mag uses .429" boolits & Rossi AFAIK uses the .429" .44 mag barrel for their .44-40's.

    If you ever buy commercial .44-40 loads, the best accuracy isn't a given, which means some testing might be indicated. (YMMV)

    Depending on how your rifle's .44-40 fired brass measures, you may be able to get away without re-sizing, but I'd size them if the rifle were mine.

    Definitely crimp the loaded rounds, fo the reason stated above.

    Please let us know how you make out...…..


    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dekker01 View Post
    So my questions are:
    -As I PC all the boolits, would a felt grease wad (tallow) be sufficient for BP to keep the fouling soft?
    I kind of doubt it as a guess but never tried it


    -Do I need to size the brass if I only use it in one riffle? (I will purchase the Lee 44-40 die set)
    There is no need to resize brass with full black powder loads where the bullet sits on top of the powder.


    -I want to use the powder through expander die with my Lee auto drum, will it expand enough for fat lead at .429 or .430? Or can I modify the expander part of it with a 44 mag?
    The Lee should work with the .429 but use caution and make sure you have a good case mouth bellow for the bullet to get started. The .430 will still work but same thing, forcing a too large of a bullet in a Lee resized case could bulge the case neck cause chambering issues, crushed case mouths/necks etc. To help prevent this, you might consider a 44-40 Lyman "M" die for .427-.428 bullets and a Lyman 44 Mag "M" die for .429-.430 bullets.

    If you are going to use .429-.430 exclusively....the RCBS "Cowboy" dies are cut for those diameters. The Lee's are more cut for the smaller diameters.


    -Is the factory crimp die worth the additional 25,-?
    Yes, HOWEVER if using 44-40 bullets like the Lyman 427098, Accurate's 43-215C with the typical 44-40 curved O'give...the Redding Profile Crimp die is superior.



    Thanks already and please bear with me for my bad English.
    My English is 20 times worse than yours and I am an American...lol

    Seriously, your English is perfect!!

    Here is some information that might help
    https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/handloading

    https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...crumpled-cases

    https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...file-crimp-die
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    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 12-30-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    You should not have any problem having moulds posted......gun parts are a different ball game.....Anyhoo,Id be sure to get the rifle before spending on moulds,some 44/40 chamber s have very tight necks,and wont take oversize bullets ,even if the bore is a bit larger.....i recommend a Lee 2 cavity for starters,small spend to get the gun shooting.....A mould from the US by say DHL takes no more than a few days to arrive,always assuming your Customs dont hold it up.......DHL seem to have arrangements to bypass customs in most countries,so that cuts possible delays...(I have no connection to DHL)

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    I use an early Rossi Short Rifle in .44-40. I have shot SASS for 20+ years using Black powder. The only bullet I use in my .44-40 Colts and Uberti, Rossi and USFA rifles is the Mav Dutchman 44 Cal 200 grain big lube. Molds can be gotten from Dick Dastardly BIG LUBE®, LLC - BLACK POWDER SHOOTING SUPPLIES http://www.biglube.com/Default.aspx The bullet carries enough lube to keep the residue in the barrel soft. You might give Springield Slim, master caster of Big Lube bullets for sale http://www.whyteleatherworks.com a call to talk about black powder shooting, he knows much more about black powder than most anyone you can talk to.

    PeeWee SASS 15785

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I second the Redding profile crimp die. 44-40 is a tough cartridge to get right. Expect some swearing in the reloading room.

    I have a Rossi too. Reload both BP and smokeless. Since the Rossi could handle more, I made some Rossi specific loads with IMR 4227 if my memory serves me. Been a few years.

    44-40 shines in BP though. So much cleaner than 45 colt. I won’t even run colt in BP anymore.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    The Steves Gunz dvd says the extractor spring he sells is a 410 English spring cut about 1/4 inch from the end of the extractor. He says he gets them from Brownells, 4 inches long and cuts them. Hopefully, you can find a European source. The stock extractor springs in both my M92's threw the brass way too high. They are much better with the new springs. I thinned the loading gate springs on both, but didn't touch any other springs.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Rossi's tend to throw empties very far due to an overly strong ejector spring. .44-40 cases are too dear to lose. This same spring also affects the action, making working it harder than it should be.

    Assuming the action parts in the .44-40 are the same as in my .357 Rossi, an inexpensive fix is a Century C-530 spring, available on Ebay and Amazon for about $6 USD for a pack of 6. It is a direct ejector spring replacement, drops empties at your feet, and lightens the action. Should be no problem obtaining as it is not a "gun" part.

    Several Youtube videos will help in disassembly/reassembly.

    Hope you'll enjoy your Rossi as much as I do!

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The Lee bullet really doesn't hold enough lube for black and for black I have much better luck with the rcbs bullet with the wide deep groove. Suprisingly in my old N/A 44-40 I get really good accuracy with 7 grains of Trail Boss. This still doesn't come to the base of the bullet and shows no pressure signs in my gun.

  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for all the helpfull information! Also for the pm's.

    I will see if I can find the springs locally or on ebay.

    It is difficult (for me) to wait for the Rossi to arrive and not make use of the time to cast boolits. I guess I am just impatient, although that could mean that I waist money on the wrong mould.

    Ps. I have seen Savvy_jack on several forums with information (I read just about every thing that can find) and usefull discussions with a person called w44wcf. I bookmarked most of them. If that savvy_jack is you then Thanks for disclosing all that information on the 44-40.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    w44wcf was the late John Kort.

    He is no longer with us, but Savvy Jack has archived most of his writings on the .44-40 on his web site, https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/ which is a great source of information.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Ok, I couldn't wait any longer and ordered a five cavity mould from arsenalmolds. It's a 432-180 rf (thats coww weight, I will use pure lead with 5% pewter) with a large lube grove. I asked to size the diameter down to 429. It will be for paper targets at 50 meters with either black or smokeless powder. I reckon I can safely load the category 2 loads as listed for 205 grain lead bullits in lyman's reloading guide?
    Probably 8 or 9 grains, depending on the accuracy.

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by dekker01; 01-08-2020 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Typo's..

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    That should work fine. You may find that .430 bullets give better accuracy if your chamber has sufficient neck-release clearance for them. My Rossi prefers "fat" bullets.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dekker01 View Post
    Thanks for all the helpfull information! Also for the pm's.

    I will see if I can find the springs locally or on ebay.

    It is difficult (for me) to wait for the Rossi to arrive and not make use of the time to cast boolits. I guess I am just impatient, although that could mean that I waist money on the wrong mould.

    Ps. I have seen Savvy_jack on several forums with information (I read just about every thing that can find) and usefull discussions with a person called w44wcf. I bookmarked most of them. If that savvy_jack is you then Thanks for disclosing all that information on the 44-40.
    That would be me!!

    Welcome to the wonderful world of 1,001 ways to load a 44-40

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    That would be me!!

    Welcome to the wonderful world of 1,001 ways to load a 44-40
    Well, then I bookmarked quit a lot of your information!
    I guess I just have to give you a virtual beer for that!

    Ps. the mold: http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...name&order=ASC

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dekker01 View Post
    Well, then I bookmarked quit a lot of your information!
    I guess I just have to give you a virtual beer for that!

    Ps. the mold: http://arsenalmolds.com/products?pro...name&order=ASC
    lol, Thanks!!

    Listen to Outpost and the Late John Kort, aka W44WCF/30WCF and you can't go wrong!!

    Me...I can destroy an anvil with a wood mallet!!

  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    That should work fine. You may find that .430 bullets give better accuracy if your chamber has sufficient neck-release clearance for them. My Rossi prefers "fat" bullets.
    I thought about .430, but as I don't have the rifle for an other 6 months, I had to take a bit of a gamble. If I recall correctly, pure lead drops somewhat larger from the mold the wheel weights. I would hate it if they wouldn't chamber (although the rossi's appear quite larger).

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekker01 View Post
    I thought about .430, but as I don't have the rifle for an other 6 months, I had to take a bit of a gamble. If I recall correctly, pure lead drops somewhat larger from the mold the wheel weights. I would hate it if they wouldn't chamber (although the rossi's appear quite larger).
    My Rossi has a large enough chamber neck to accept .431" diameter bullets loaded in Starline brass or .432" in Winchester brass. My 1905 Colt SA accepts .430 and shoots well, as does my 1920 Colt New Service. Pure lead casts smaller in diameter than wheelweights. An alloy similar to 1:20 tin lead, like your pewter mix, should cast about 0.001" larger than wheelweights which do not have any additional tin added.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check