OAL question

[bbogue1]

I have a 105 grain Lee mold that drops a 106 grain semi wad cutter I would like to use in my Sig P250 9mm. The bullet looks very much like a Lyman 356402 bullet (a 120 grain semi wad cutter), but, it is shorter. For the Lyman 120 gr a W231 load range is 2.9 gr to 4.4 gr. I have developed a load of 3.4 grains of W231. Lyman recommends a maximum OAL of 1.169 for 9mm and an OAL of 1.110 for the 120 gr. which I have problems with. If I set a OAL at 1.110 with the 105 gr it will not chamber, wad cutter part gets caught on the top of the feed ramp. If I set my OAL to 1.050 it feeds fine. Am I correct in thinking the shorter OAL is ok because the bullet is shorter?

[John McCorkle]

I have a 105 grain Lee mold that drops a 106 grain semi wad cutter I would like to use in my Sig P250 9mm. The bullet looks very much like a Lyman 356402 bullet (a 120 grain semi wad cutter), but, it is shorter. For the Lyman 120 gr a W231 load range is 2.9 gr to 4.4 gr. I have developed a load of 3.4 grains of W231. Lyman recommends a maximum OAL of 1.169 for 9mm and an OAL of 1.110 for the 120 gr. which I have problems with. If I set a OAL at 1.110 with the 105 gr it will not chamber, wad cutter part gets caught on the top of the feed ramp. If I set my OAL to 1.050 it feeds fine. Am I correct in thinking the shorter OAL is ok because the bullet is shorter?

Ive never used that bullet specifically but I know alot of folks do with 9mm...I hear it works great.

Yes the shorter bullet has less volume in the case. I'd look online ..I've seen others use a coal with this bullet as short as 1.000". Some a few thou shorter. Always start low on pressure, these bullets weren't designed for 9mm but just happen to work well. Start with proven load charge and see what feeds and operates well and enjoy- like I said no personal experience but I've been super tempted as many people absolutely love this mold in 9mm

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[kmw1954]

https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-358-105-swc.html

Is this the bullet you are using? If so I believe the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook has doad data in it for this. Would post it now but at this time I have the book borrowed out.

[sigep1764]

Use of the 105 SWC is possible. Most newer pistols do not have as generous of a throat or leade as older pistols, which results in the SWC edge of the boolit hanging up in the throat or leade. Make up a dummy round (no powder or primer, just the boolit seated in the case) and continue to seat the boolit deeper until it sets fully in the chamber of the barrel. Then start low in the load data for your particular powder choice and work up to functioning and accuracy. The Lyman 402 boolit is a truncated cone or TC style boolit and generally chambers with less trouble.

[fcvan]

Back in the mid 1980s, I read where the Lee 358-105 SWC worked well in .380 ACP. It does, as I bought that mold to try it. I also loaded it in 9mm where it printed pretty targets.

I can't tell you the OAL as I don't have any loaded up to measure. I loaded to where the case mouth was in the center of the first driving band of the boolit. I originally tested this boolit in a S&W 459, then a Berreta 92, and many Glocks. It did not feed well in an AR 15 chambered in 9mm using Colt style stick mags. I hope this has been helpful.

[bbogue1]

https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-358-105-swc.html

Is this the bullet you are using? If so I believe the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook has load data in it for this. Would post it now but at this time I have the book borrowed out.

Yes this is the mold. I cast them, PC them then size them to .356 which is the size I get when I slug my barrel. I do not have that book. Have wanted to buy one, here is a reason to buy one. Thanks.

I'll make a dummy and see how that chambers starting long and then reducing my OAL down a bit. Nice to hear someone else has experience with this.

[kmw1954]

Later today I will try and contact the borrower and get the load data for you.

I have about 30 of these bullets a fellow member sent to try just not sure if I want to try them in the 380 he sent them for or in a 9mm or 38Spl... I just received a 38 and this looks like it could be interesting to load for.

[fredj338]

OAL is the most misunderstood part or reloading. The shorter OAL may have nothing to do with case capacity, but the nose may be short, as in the 105gr. As long as you are not pushing max pressures, a shorter OAL wont affect things much. Regardless of the data, OAL is always bullet & barrel specific.

[gwpercle]

The Lee 358-105-SWC has worked just fine in the 4 different 9mm Luger pistols I've worked with .
OAL has to be determined by how much of a throat each has . WWII Walther P38 has a long throat and will chamber just about any length that fits the magazine . Newer pistols have little or no throat and that requires the boolit to be seated just below (the thickness of your thumbnail) the top edge of the top driving band .

A loaded round has to freely chamber , freely extract and fit the magazine of the pistol .
Because of that some pistols require deeper seating than others .

For some reason the WWII era Walther P38 just loves that little boolit , shoots tight groups to the pistols fixed sights . The sights are moveable but it's not a simple job...wartime ordinance didn't get the niceties of fully adjustable sights .

You are going to have to play with seating depth , it's a short boolit so there is no concern over deep seating raising pressure even when the boolit is seated to the top of the first driving band with just the nose sticking out .
Gary

[bbogue1]

OAL is the most misunderstood part or reloading. The shorter OAL may have nothing to do with case capacity, but the nose may be short, as in the 105gr. As long as you are not pushing max pressures, a shorter OAL wont affect things much. Regardless of the data, OAL is always bullet & barrel specific.

I made some dummy rounds. I decapped and sized them, Then belled them just enough for the boolit to sit up straight. I reset the sizing die to not push the bullet at all. Then I turned the adjustment 1/4 turn at a time until the round would plunk in my barrel, thus being at the proper depth (less than a thumbnail width above the lump above the boolit). They plunk in my size checker and in my barrel. The final size is 1.03" Anything else I should think about? I sure appreciate you alls advice.

[kmw1954]

Well looks like I was mistaken as there is no data in the Pistol & Revolver Handbook. Appears Lyman didn't offer a comparable mold. Closest they show is a .356" 100gr TC with a OAL @ .976"and a 231 charge of 3.2 - 4.5gr... So I don't know how much that will help.

[John McCorkle]

Are you using alox, standard lube or powder coating on these boolits?

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[bbogue1]

Well looks like I was mistaken as there is no data in the Pistol & Revolver Handbook. Appears Lyman didn't offer a comparable mold. Closest they show is a .356" 100gr TC with a OAL @ .976"and a 231 charge of 3.2 - 4.5gr... So I don't know how much that will help.

That pretty much parallels what I could find. I did work up a load that seems to work well. 3.4 grains of W231 delivers little to no burnt powder on the outside of the case, tends to perform well, no signs of overpressure, no stovepipes or fail to eject and the magazine likes them.

[kmw1954]

bboque1 that's good to hear. What did you start at and are you going to try a bit more powder? I believe you went about finding and setting your OAL correctly and that is the way I do it also. Only difference on my end is I have more than one gun that I load for so I always set the length to fit the shortest barrel. Doesn't make optimum loads but they are pretty close.

[fcvan]

Well looks like I was mistaken as there is no data in the Pistol & Revolver Handbook. Appears Lyman didn't offer a comparable mold. Closest they show is a .356" 100gr TC with a OAL @ .976"and a 231 charge of 3.2 - 4.5gr... So I don't know how much that will help.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th edition, does list the Lee 358-105 SWC for 38 Special, as well as 357 Magnum, but of course not for the 9mm. When I started loading this boolit in 9mm, I used the same charge weight I use for many things, 5 grains of Unique. 38 SP 125 RN, 9mm 125 RN, 40 S&W 175 TC, they all shoot well and most are below maximum loading. The added bonus is I don't have to change my auto disc powder measure very often, save for 45 ACP, .357 Mag and .357 Sig.

I used to use the 105 SWC as a starter load for new shooters due to the lack of recoil. Of late, I have been using the Lee 356-95 RF or the 356-102 1R in 38 SP and 9mm. I have of late been using the 102 1R in 9mm a lot as it cycles well in my 9mm AR 15 and effectively kills tin cans.

[kmw1954]

fcvan thanks for the tip!

I am thinking that I really need to try those 105 SWC in the 38Spl or the 9mm. The mold can be bought cheaply enough and we can get a bunch of 105gr Boolits from a pound of lead.

I also was given some TL356-95 RF that were powder coated and they were marginal compared to the Lee 356-102-R1 and another 95gr RN I had. So I bought a 356-102 mold and have cast about 500 already and have shot about 1/2 of those already.

[bbogue1]

bboque1 that's good to hear. What did you start at and are you going to try a bit more powder? I believe you went about finding and setting your OAL correctly and that is the way I do it also. Only difference on my end is I have more than one gun that I load for so I always set the length to fit the shortest barrel. Doesn't make optimum loads but they are pretty close.

My earlier efforts were a guess, I tried to find data for a OAL that made sense. No luck. I think it's because the mold is designed for .358 not .356. I have a 9mm with a barrel that slugs at .3564 which means I can load cast boolits up to .358. Nice thought, but my Sig does not like to fully chamber a .358. I found if I powder coat a .356 it becomes a .357 and my sig likes the size with 3.6 grains of W231. That powder weight delivers cleaner cases and ejects well. Then became the issue of accuracy. I started with Lymans recommended OAL for their 115 grain semi wad cutter since both the Lee and the Lyman are SWC. which is 1.110, under sizing a bit to 1.080 to start with (dummy round). I kept reducing the OAL using my barrel as my plunk tester as well as the manual action of my Sig and I ended up at 1.030.

For safety's sake I am thinking of smoking the bullet in a dummy round and just barely seating it, just enough so it will stay put. Then put that into battery and most likely I'll have marks on the smoked bullet indicating where the riffling begins. I'll get my new OAL by backing off that distance 2 thousandths. My fear is it may become stuck in the chamber and difficult to remove thus messing up the measurement. Great winter time entertainment.

Yes I will need to work up another load to accommodate my new OAL, though I think it will be near the same, the only way I know of to be sure is to test.