Is Thompson Center dying?

[megasupermagnum]

I've said this before, but I was always a Thompson Center fan, because they were a USA manufacturer who made all kinds of cool guns of all forms. They made dozens of different muzzleloaders, some came and went in just a number of years, some stuck around for many decades. They were always innovating, and always turned out a high quality gun. They were always a muzzleloader company, but obviously took over the single shot market.

Now I look at their website today, and it's shrinking every year since they were bought. Currently they only make two bolt actions, the Compass and the Venture. They obviously sell, but both seem so similar, it doesn't make sense to offer both. Last year they still had the Dimension which was a switch barrel. That was a cool innovative gun, but only lasted what, 5 years? They never offered but a handful of barrels for it. I also see they offer a custom long range bolt action. Nothing real innovative about it, just a high price bolt for someone. Not me.

They offer a version of the Ruger 10/22, there's not a million of those out there.

Their single shot barrels and accessories have dwindled. They still offer both the Encore and Contender G2, but both are largely unchanged. This is ok, as both are fine just the way they are. The wide array of barrels is gone, only offered in the aftermarket or used. The Encore is currently only listed in 4 basic calibers.

Their muzzleloaders, however, are just three models. The Encore, Triumph, and Impact. The Encore is fine. The Triumph is just the easy ship version of the Encore. The Impact is the best deal coming from TC at the moment in my eyes. It's the only reasonably priced, American made muzzleloader made anymore. It shoots fantastic, as good as any encore.

So with all that, where is the innovation and creativity from TC that we used to see? They can't just ride on the Encore and Contender forever. I doubt they can last in the over crowded bolt market. Their muzzleloaders are all cookie cutter inline 50 caliber modern's. I would hate to see what was once a great company fade into history.

Come out with a new single shot switch barrel system. Bring back some old school muzzleloaders. Or go a different direction all together.

[NSB]

It would appear to me that they're doing fine. There are several companies that piggy back on the Encores and Contenders, custom forearms, and stocks, hinge pins, custom barrels, and more. Without knowing what their sales numbers were back in the earlier days of being originally owned and now being owned by SW, it's hard to say whether or not they're fading away. I've been buying TC guns and products for over forty years and it doesn't look to me like they're dying out.

[smithnframe]

In my opinion they've been dead ever since they stopped manufacturing traditional muzzloaders!

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I think it died when S&W bought it

[dverna]

The Compass is the most accurate gun I have ever owned. From reports from other owners, my experience with its accuracy is well established. It is ugly but it shoots. It is a low end gun with a three position safety and that is a nice feature in a hunting rifle.

There is no need to "improve" it IMHO unless they want to get into high end markets for gun snobs (BTW, I am one!). But I have enough pretty rifles so I think T/C should stay the course. I would pay another $50 for a better trigger if they offered that option.

Innovation can be expensive and they may have decided to make a profit on what works. Bean Counters are like that.

BTW, they would not have dropped the Dimension if it was selling well and profitable. Bean Counters are not gun guys (generally) but they are not stupid.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

I think it died when S&W bought it

That’s what I was thinking.

[FergusonTO35]

TC is just a name and a product line. S&W decides just how big or small they can be.

[Larry Gibson]

TC is just a name and a product line. S&W decides just how big or small they can be.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case...….

[NSB]

I can tell you that their service and customer support has been excellent for me since the new owners took over. I've got several TC Encores and a number of extra barrels for them besides (all aftermarket except the ML barrel). I wanted to play around with making a hanger system for one of my guns and they were really helpful in suggesting what I might be able to do and offered some comments about what to expect....they were spot on their analysis). I've ordered parts and have gotten them at no charge, they promptly answer the phone and let you talk to a tech, and are always pleasant and polite when I call. I've got no bones to pick with them and so far, none of my new Encore frames have had any issues at all. As stated above, SW determines what they want to do with this part of their business. So far, I'm not seeing any problems. It is unfortunate that they no longer produce their side lock ML rifles, but like a lot of other guns (the Savage ML2 comes to mind) they reach a saturation point and sales drop off and there's not enough meat on the bone to keep it going.

[megasupermagnum]

I too have had great experiences with their customer support. Their guns are still as accurate as ever. I'm sure the new Encores and Contenders still continue to out shoot plenty of new bolt actions.

What I'm talking about is how the company is currently best described as cookie cutter. They make a run of the mill bolt action. Nothing to set them apart from a winchester, remington, or others. Their muzzleloaders are 50 caliber inlines like EVERY OTHER manufacturer makes. Personally I still think TC is right on top of the game as for quality, but still nothing unusual. It's just a 50 caliber rifle using a 209 primer.

The old TC would at least come out with a version of their muzzleloader that was different. Maybe they make one that uses a large rifle primer. Maybe offer a smooth bore. Who knows.

Here's some examples. Their flagship's were always the side locks, the hawken and renegade, both percussion and flintlock. From those they came out with dozens of different guns. They had the scout rifle and pistol. It was an TC designed inline with percussion ignition. They had the firestorm, which was supposed to be a easy igniting flintlock that could even shoot pellets (real world may disagree). They had the black mountain magnum, the first muzzleloader that was supposed to be safe with a 150 grain charge. They made all kinds of calibers from 32 caliber to 58 caliber, even 12 gauge. About the only thing they didn't make was a true round ball gun, they either stuck with their 1:48 barrels, or had a fast twist.

The market is prime for them to come back with a percussion or flintlock. There's still half a dozen or more states that require a traditional style muzzleloader for hunting. Many even ban plastic sabots and pellet powder. There's a perfect way for them to go. Design a 40 or 45 caliber version that can shoot a lead conical accurate to 300 yards for the western states. Their current 50 caliber offerings are only sabot guns with their recessed muzzle.

[redneck1]

Well here's the thing about being a business , to survive you have to make money . Just because you think a market is prime doesn't in fact make it so .
If selling traditional muzzleloaders made the company money they would still be selling them .
It also goes that if the market allowed they would also be offering endless encore and contender barrels and accessories.

And alas , the current market isn't one to allow much in the way of new products and innovation , I'd hazard a guess that most manufacturers are all in survival mode and doing there best to weather the storm and wait for the weak to die off to relieve the pressure of a bloated market .

[quilbilly]

My understanding was that S&W bought the company for its rifle barrel making capabilities.

[cas]

Started in '96 with the fire, killed by S&W.

[barnabus]

In my opinion they've been dead ever since they stopped manufacturing traditional muzzloaders!

exactly

[NSB]

There's an entire cottage industry built around the Contender and Encore frames. It's all about what makes money. If you're disappointed in the fact that they no longer make traditional muzzle loading rifles, take a look at how many in-lines are now out there. All those guys jumped off the side lock wagon and onto the in-line wagon. The buying public determines what they make and sell.

[megasupermagnum]

There's an entire cottage industry built around the Contender and Encore frames. It's all about what makes money. If you're disappointed in the fact that they no longer make traditional muzzle loading rifles, take a look at how many in-lines are now out there. All those guys jumped off the side lock wagon and onto the in-line wagon. The buying public determines what they make and sell.

That's not what I mean. They gave up on side locks, that's understandable. So now they turn out a vanilla 209 primer inline, and that's the end of it? That's too bad to hear. It just amazes me to see the breadth of different guns they used to make. I can't pick a point in time from their founding to about the mid 2000's where they weren't experimenting with something. It didn't matter if it was a handgun, rifle, single shot, or muzzle loader. They always had something that was unique. Now for the past 15 years they have just been dormant. They came out with the Encore muzzleloader about 15-20 years ago, and it was cutting edge at the time. They have the Impact, which is just a cheaper outfitted version to keep costs down, but the breech plug and inside the barrel is the same.

Oh well, what's going to happen is going to happen. I just hate to see it go the way of H&R, which I still miss sorely.

[rking22]

In my eyes they died when bought by S&W. The innovation was a direct result of the inspired founders, now long gone. Profit driven corporations rarely “experiment” when money can be made more generically. I have been a long time Contender fan, like 1976 vintage for my first. You could buy a trashed barrel call them and have all the lugs, screws ect you needed in the mail, and for free. Folks on the phone line knew the product and cared, good luck with that now. I liked their sidelocks, especially the Senaca and Renagades, and the patriot pistol is an elegant tack driver. Sorry but inclined, and the Encore don’t appeal to me, I feel those were the start of the move to market driven rather than inspired products of the owner of the company. Look at Ruger now vs in Bill Ruger’s time at the helm. Just an opinion,that’s just mine.

[444ttd]

i don't buy "junk beginner plastic" rifles anymore. remmy, ruger,mossberg, weatherby, tikka, tc..... all of them. only wood and blued steel fer me. i like laminates tho.


i used to have a tc venture in 25-06, but i sold her years ago. i have two encores, one is tc and the other is s&w. other than the name, i can't see the difference tho. i will admit that MGM does my barrels. i would like to buy a g2, but money is tight(disability check) and i got other things to do, like a mauser 93 and 98( have them).

i can understand why s&w doesn't do the things that "everybody" wants, but who does?

[Tripplebeards]

Yeah they quit making the omega muzzleloader which was the industry leader and the muzzle loader game changer IMO when it first came out. I have an original one from the first year that they came out. I think it was 399 at the time for the plain black one. First muzzleloader ever shot three shot all the same hold 100 yards. All the rest of the Smoke pokes I owned at the time prior to it I’d be happy if they were pie plate accuracy at that distance. My omega shot tighter groups at 100 yards than the rest of my smoke poles did a 100 yards! I called them up the other day because I was missing three sabots out of a pack of my TC shockwaves. I figured maybe they would send me three in an envelope. They ended up replacing my three missing plastic sabots with a complete box of 15 TC shockwave bullets and sabots. I was impressed with their customer service. I also bent my jag and they said they didn’t have anymore in stock but referred me to Midway USA and said they had a few.

[725]

I'm with smithnframe. When the side-hammer line stopped, the company was diminished. It might not have been the wis-bang bean counter super line anymore, but it was a handsome, well built, solid gun. There will always be a market for quality.