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Thread: why belief in God matters to kids....

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Half of all children are girls, not he, his, he's or him but they, theirs or them.
    At least half of us - including you - understand that male pronouns used as I just did applies to all humanity and it's nothing but an effort to deflect thinking that causes you to take that path. All three of my offspring are she's; they are quite intelligent - and mature - and they know what I said in the context of what I wrote. You do too, but .... ??

    You would not want to be considered sexist! Not, man-size but adult size.
    Considering the confused minds of those snowflakes who melt down at imagined errors today, I don't care a bit what I'm "considered."

  2. #42
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    I suspect that you don't have the courtesy to change with the times and use gender neutral pronouns. It is no longer the case that the pronouns you used are consider to apply to all humanity. They are not snowflakes that melt down at imagined errors they are strong people who will not give respect to those who can't return it with courtesy.

    I will need to stop it at this point as we are no longer talking about theology.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoransixgun View Post
    something wrong with the religion, or something wrong with the people??? a hundred years ago this was taught and believed by the great majority....the need to "lie" about it is a modern concept that reflects on modern people more than anything....
    generally, people are the religion. but back to the main topic. there is no need to lie to a child to comfort them. it may take a little thought and concern to convey what you want without lying, but it can be done. lying is my #1 most hated thing, as it is tied in with everything else people consider evil or a sin in life. no one has ever met a thief who wasnt a liar, no one has ever met a cheater who wasnt a liar, no one has ever met a murder who wasnt a liar. dont teach a child that it is ok to lie. if you lie to them, you are telling them it is ok, they might not know it today or tomorrow, but they will figure it out. i could go on, but i think everyone gets the idea.

  4. #44
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    Discussions like this are always interesting.
    There are always those who know, those who think they know, and those who have been deceived and unknowingly pass on the deception.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  5. #45
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    Thanks, Hickory....

    How do you get that "Bitter Clinger" logo? I like it....

  6. #46
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    Click on your user name.
    click on view profile.
    On left side, go to join group.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  7. #47
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    Getting back to the topic, "Why belief in God matters to kids" one poster decried people "lying to kids about God" in the implied context that since "no one knows", any suggestions to a kid that God is real has to be a "lie." I said to "lie" to the kids in the sense the poster meant it but he's wrong.

    Deniers are wrong about God and heaven, thus their version of my truth automatically becomes their "lie". When I said "lie" to hurting children I was playing their foolish word game back to them using their own intellectually false term; by their own admission they don't know who is right. So, devoid of that knowledge, their calling those who disagree with them "liers" is intellectually dishonest on its face.

    I believe in the God of the Bible. I defy anyone to prove I'm wrong about God and his heaven AND/OR to explain how my truth can possibly be harmful to children ... or anyone else. Fact is, for anyone to withhold any measure of comfort from a child (or anyone else) in deep emotional agony is cruel, especially if it's coldly intellectual because they lack a scientific certainty of a heavenly reunion. And THAT'S my unabashed "truth"!


    Note to anyone who cares: Regardless of my chosen use of pronouns, because of their mother no one who knows my three girls would suggest they're intellectual weaklings lacking a strong sense of who and what they are no matter what a few emotionally crippled pink hatted "modern" nags may screech. Also from their mother (and maybe their father?), they know who and what real men should be. And, because of who my girls became, they each have overseen Christian homes for my nine emotionally, intellectually and spiritually strong grandchildren - and now, by extension, our four great-grandchildren.

    All meaning I have no apologies to anyone for the mature pronouns I use and I really like the living ripple effects of God's version of the truth ("Bring up a child in the way he should go and when he is old ..." -- Prov. 22:6).

  8. #48
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    Telling your a child about the afterlife you believe is not a lie, a lie is telling someone something that you believe is untrue.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  9. #49
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    it is always great to see how well people twist things around. it is never good enough that they believe or have faith, it is always they are right, and you are wrong. regardless, if you have to lie, you are wrong. i dont even care what your stance or beliefs are. you do not have to lie, especially to a child about your belief to comfort them.

  10. #50
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    Hmmmm,....
    Lying to children makes me think of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy.............
    Why do we tell those lies?
    Our "culture" has been doing that for years.

  11. #51
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    Truth is a virtue. A lie is something told to deceive others in harmful ways. Not every story that's untrue is a lie. Jesus spoke to men in parables; they were stories that were not technically true but they were not lies; Jesus' stories served greater truths that needed telling. A blind pursuit of the virtue of truth, of itself and regardless of effect, can easily become callous and, in that, become sinful.

    One of the worst failings of well intended but heartless "good" people is using their legalist/humanist thinking to carefully beat others over the head for their own good rather than striving to meet their immediate needs. Thus, sadly, mindless "good" people have repelled many hurting people away from a perceived harsh god. Hurting people of any age can't be comforted by hearing the fine points of uncertain individual theology. An adult myopic pursuit of a lofty vision of truth can easily be heartless in effect, especially so to kids; that's not something anyone should be proud of. (1 Cor 13:1)

    In God's eyes, the primary value any man can have is a heart of loving empathy, not one who blindly follows a cold list of legalistic religious rules. Many dedicated military chaplains have compassionately - and, IMHO, rightly - "lied" to comfort dying soldiers; I thank God for them. Ditto those who kneel to do right things in order to comfort hurting children. (1 Sam 16:7)

    I don't expect atheists to understand all this.
    Last edited by 1hole; 01-02-2020 at 05:11 PM.

  12. #52
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    a lie, is a lie no matter how you color it.

  13. #53
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    I thought that's the way you would feel.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    An adult's mindless pursuit of "truth" in the hearts and minds of children in times of distress does more emotional damage than necessary. Why not reassure a "child" and give him some measure of comfort, like when someone in his family dies. Who or what is harmed in any way if we say, "He's gone to heaven and he won't hurt or be sick anymore but we'll all get to see him again when we get to heaven too."

    Some of us do know what happens after death but, no, it can't be proven in any scientific way. But science is a cold comfort; why lay the burden of some adult's doubt on a child long before he's able to deal with man-size questions?

    Seriously, other than inflating an adult's ego for always being "honest" with children, what good does transferring adult spiritual uncertainties do for a child who is confused and hurting RIGHT NOW? My compassion for children is much too great for me to lay the emotional burdens and spiritual wranglings of humanity at large on their small backs before they are strong enough to deal with it.

    I have always and will continue to "lie" about scientific questions of Jesus and heaven in order to comfort any hurting person within my reach. I'm just not going to ram other people's intellectual, spiritual or emotional adult confusions down children's throats before they are ready to deal with it.

    Kids grow up in due time, we can't stop it; I know that as an observed fact so I'm determined to make their progression as easy as possible. Meaning I will always "lie" about my Biblically orthodox view of God's heaven to people who are hurting, especially so to children.
    Our 6 year old grandson believes his little sister is in heaven because we believe in God. He comes to church with us. It is not B.S. to our grandson.

    If a child of an an atheist hears that his little sister is in heaven, it does not work. The child knows the parents/grandparents do not believe in God. The child would know it is a lie.

    When we walked up to the casket of our granddaughter, it was awful. Our grandson saw our grief and came over to us. The little guy, put his hand over his heart and told us his sister was in our hearts and she was in heaven looking down us us.

    Believing in God and heaven made a huge difference to that boy and the rest of us.

    I agree with your post. Even if there is no God....it is stupid for an atheist to tell a child dealing with death there is no God unless it is their child they want to screw up
    Last edited by dverna; 01-02-2020 at 11:40 PM.
    Don Verna


  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    I thought that's the way you would feel.
    you would be correct, but it has nothing to do with religious beliefs or lack of. ideas, thoughts, and beliefs can be explained to children without lying. it is sad that so many people take the easy way out in life and lie instead of putting thought into what they say.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    you would be correct, but it has nothing to do with religious beliefs or lack of. ideas, thoughts, and beliefs can be explained to children without lying. it is sad that so many people take the easy way out in life and lie instead of putting thought into what they say.
    It is not a lie if our children know we believe. See my post above.
    Don Verna


  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    It is not a lie if our children know we believe. See my post above.
    i never said its a lie if you believe. the whole premise of the OP's opening article was lie to children to make them feel better. if you have to lie to a child, it is either because you dont believe yourself, or your just too lazy to put in the required effort.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Our 6 year old grandson believes his little sister is in heaven because we believe in God. He comes to church with us. It is not B.S. to our grandson.

    If a child of an an atheist hears that his little sister is in heaven, it does not work. The child knows the parents/grandparents do not believe in God. The child would know it is a lie.
    True, but it would only be a lie in the hearts of the speaker, not in fact.

    Children come in all ages and maturity. If a kid is too young to know the lost spiritual position of his family then saying there is a loving God in a beautiful heaven would probably help. At worst, it would be meaningless to him but it would still be harmless. IMHO.

    When we walked up to the casket of our granddaughter, it was awful. Our grandson saw our grief and came over to us. The little guy, put his hand over his heart and told us his sister was in our hearts and she was in heaven looking down us us.

    Believing in God and heaven made a huge difference to that boy and the rest of us.
    Yep.

    I agree with your post. Even if there is no God....it is stupid for an atheist to tell a child dealing with death there is no God unless it is their child they want to screw up.
    Yeah. Well, it would be stupid to expect anyone at all to find even a slight comfort in the atheist's position.

    I've found that a significant majority of doctors and nurses (in my area) are professing Christians. Those medic's accounts of imminent patient death confirm that most atheists die terrified by their empty beliefs, not comforted; it seems few Christians die that way.

    Any atheist trying to give intellectual words of comfort and encouragement for others, kids or adults, by thoughtfully sharing their own nihilistic beliefs can only make an already emotional bad time worse. Their bottom line is, "It's over kid, your sister/parent/etc. is now as dead and destroyed as a squashed bug. Life is meaningless, death happens to all of us so buck up, grit your teeth and wait for your turn to be squashed." That's not me.

    I'm going to do everything in my power to reassure hurting and frightened children OR adults. In love, my counsel is and always will be, "God is in his heaven, your loved one is with him and, if you follow Jesus, someday you'll meet again."

    If that's a "sinful lie" to some, so be it, but I'm not concerned. I'd much rather face Jesus as a committed force of His love than as a humanist pretender determined to feed others some kind of hurtful "truth." If possible, I'll deal with the "rest of God's story" later, when the injured and emotionally hurting people are better prepared to receive it. As I see it, those who are determined to do otherwise are ready to use "truth" as a club to further inflate their already huge self image.

  19. #59
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    Like your post 1-hole
    Don Verna


  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Even if there is no God....it is stupid for an atheist to tell a child dealing with death there is no God unless it is their child they want to screw up
    There are many levels of "screwed up" that can arise here, not the least of which is "You're saying that my Mommy is in Heaven, but I REALLY need her down here. This 'Plan' that you're saying is not my place to understand just lit all MY plans on fire. Just exactly what reassurance do you think I'm supposed to get from your view of things?"

    Think of it this way - an atheist will tell a kid that Mom was an unfortunate bug that got hit by some random windshield of the universe, and now they'll have to get on with whatever they have left; the believer will effectively tell a kid that the Supreme Being murdered Mom to further His own ends, and that the murderer will always be at large.

    Short version - the notion of a "guiding hand" being behind all that happens is not necessarily going to be taken as a comfort by all it is presented to. I'll take - and do take - the random meteor strike conclusion every time. For some, "There is no 'WHY'" is a better place to proceed from, and looking for one only provides more misery. At the very least, presenting that view is often going to take many more supporting arguments - and you'd better be prepared to deliver them - to chill a traumatized child out. Hopefully, that explains to you why the non-spiritual should not attempt to guide anyone spiritually. What any of us perceive as a lie is harder to sell/maintain than what we perceive as the truth, and starting the conversation by lying to an innocent dealing with a lot of pain - or delivering them to someone who would lie for you by telling their version of the truth - is an ethical train wreck waiting to happen.
    WWJMBD?

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