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Thread: why belief in God matters to kids....

  1. #21
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    Interesting to look at history and see where belief in God led and where Marx's philosophy has led.....

    Just because you call it a myth, doesn't mean it's a myth....Just that you think it's a myth....

    Atheism doesn't have a good track record in history for leading to good cultures and societies. Modern history has proven that....

    Why has mankind historically believed in a deity up until recent times? We are no less religious today, it's just that we worship technology today instead of a God. And we're certainly no better off for it...

    (I've never posted anything religious on this forum. It has been interesting to see how many non-believers have shamelessly jumped on my thread and used it to air their grievances against God and religion.)

  2. #22
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    Well, did you want echo chamber agreement, or did you want to actually discuss this?

    Your O.P. brings up the idea that the entire faith/religion thing effectively IS a form of medication against what could be called "Post Death Anxiety" or "Real World Interface Disorder", and puts forth the notion that whether or not you happen to suffer from those maladies, you should medicate your kids as a matter of course. If nothing else, that would make for some interesting social interactions: "It's like this Pastor Bob. . .Personally, I think your meds are nothing but placebos, but my kid's wetting the bed and Prozac didn't work. We thought we'd try him out on JesusRX for six months and see if that helps. If that doesn't work, we might try Mohammedol or Buddhasenex. We were considering getting him a case of Hebrewskis, but thought he might be a little young for that." I can't see how any of us would think that raising ones kids on what we consider to be lies a valid approach. How would one maintain such a sham? How's that work out after a decade or so when you tell you kid you've always thought it was B.S.? Or when you're still an atheist in 17 years when your kid starts hanging with the "wrong crowd" and goes full evangelical? Can't do the home life any good at all.
    WWJMBD?

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  3. #23
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    Bigslug, this part of the forum is specifically called "theological." It seems logical that if you don't believe in theology you would respect others and the way they believe rather than jumping in and bashing their beleifs. (Maybe ask the mods to set up an atheist section of the forum?) I'm frustrated because people are using this thread as a platform to spew their unbelief (and not even address the original topic at all!!!!). You can call it an "echo chamber," I looked at this part of the forum as a "truth chamber."
    Last edited by sonoransixgun; 12-30-2019 at 07:16 AM. Reason: clarified thoughts...

  4. #24
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    "Your O.P. brings up the idea that the entire faith/religion thing effectively IS a form of medication against what could be called "Post Death Anxiety" or "Real World Interface Disorder", and puts forth the notion that whether or not you happen to suffer from those maladies, you should medicate your kids as a matter of course."

    Not at all. You're reducing the idea to something it's not. The fact is we all have (and need) a worldview. It's part of being human. Some worldviews actually make sense of life. Some don't. It's like a road map through the forest. You seem to prefer that young people just try to make it on their own without any help. Statistics show how that's not working as belief in God subsides and youth suicides and mental/emotional problems increase....

  5. #25
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    I find it rather intriguing that an atheistic jew is the one advising parents to "lie" to your children, and teach them to believe in God. I also think it's insightful that the same psychoanalyst has drawn the ire of her colleagues for using neuroscience and psychology to prove that babies need mothers. As a believer I find it amusing that unbelievers stumble onto God's plan, then think they have found something.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoransixgun View Post
    This is an article from World magazine....It's nothing new to us who are believers, but I enjoy it when eminent liberals and atheists agree with us and show some common sense (even though she still doesn't advocate authentic faith)....

    Why belief in God matters to kids
    Declining interest in religion is one of the most important explanations for increased rates of depression and anxiety in children and teens today, according to New York psychoanalyst Erica Komisar.

    “I am often asked by parents, ‘How do I talk to my child about death if I don’t believe in God or heaven?’ My answer is always the same: ‘Lie,’” she wrote in an editorial earlier this month for The Wall Street Journal. “The idea that you simply die and turn to dust may work for some adults, but it doesn’t help children. Belief in heaven helps them grapple with this tremendous and incomprehensible loss.”

    But fewer and fewer Americans attend church or say they believe in God. Komisar, who is politically liberal and Jewish, cited research on higher psychological well-being for children or teens who attend a religious service at least once a week. She also praised the values of empathy, gratitude, and community instilled by a religious identity, needed antidotes to a distracted, lonely, and individualistic culture.

    This isn’t the first time Komisar has been willing to voice controversial conclusions. Reporters and reviewers shunned her after the release of her 2017 book Being There: Why Prioritizing Motherhood in the First Three Years Matters, which used neuroscience and psychology to defend the idea that babies have a biological need for their mother’s care. —K.C.
    "My answer is always the same: ‘Lie,’”

    I have to disagree but then I believe in God but not necessarily life after death. I would tell the truth, nobody knows what happens when we die. Some people think we go to heaven, some people thing we are reborn, some people believe some people go to eternal punishment or some people think dead is dead. Why lie, have respect for the child and not lie to them.

    Atheists don't know and God believing don't know even if they think they do.

    Tim
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  7. #27
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    Tim, I think she's conflicted and honest about it. That's further along than most get. She sees the obvious benefit that a Christian worldview has for kids, but she's an outsider, and trying to get the same benefit by an incorrect means. It's kind of like she's an imposter "stepchild" trying to sneak in and get the benefits a real child has from its parents.

    You say with such confidence, "Atheists don't know and God believing don't know even if they think they do." I guess that means you're the only one who does know! What makes you so confident that all the others are wrong and you are right?

    Also, you say you believe in God. Obviously that's not in the traditional sense or the Christian sense. Is it just your own idea of God?

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    sonoransixgun, what makes you think YOU are right and anyone else who doesn't follow YOU that they are wrong. It's like the bumper stickers that say "God said it, I believe it, that settles it", which smacks of arrogance. Everyone here has had things happen in their lives both good and bad that shape their beliefs and they are entitled to their beliefs just as you are. This section is "Theological Discussion" where people can discuss their beliefs, or lack of, and even possibly see something in a different light they hadn't thought of before. Personally, I consider myself at best a Deist and have little use for organized religion but I do attend church with my wife and son out of respect for them. Believe it or not I am on the church security team to help with any emergency that my come up and that doesn't only mean putting down some armed intruder. Some people who come here my be searching and have legitimate questions based on what they have experienced in life and shooting the wounded has usually been the Christian way.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoransixgun View Post
    Tim, I think she's conflicted and honest about it. That's further along than most get. She sees the obvious benefit that a Christian worldview has for kids, but she's an outsider, and trying to get the same benefit by an incorrect means. It's kind of like she's an imposter "stepchild" trying to sneak in and get the benefits a real child has from its parents.

    You say with such confidence, "Atheists don't know and God believing don't know even if they think they do." I guess that means you're the only one who does know! What makes you so confident that all the others are wrong and you are right?

    Also, you say you believe in God. Obviously that's not in the traditional sense or the Christian sense. Is it just your own idea of God?
    I don't know what happens after we die anymore than anyone else. Also I am not saying that others are wrong, I am saying that while they have beliefs they don't know.

    What other idea of God should you have beside the one that God gives you? Actually my belief is quite traditional. There is one God the maker of the Universe.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #30
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    Thanks, Don....I never said I was right and everyone else was wrong, etc., etc....Tim was the one who made the statement that "Atheists don't know and God believing don't know even if they think they do." I was just asking him about that, and don't understand why you're pointing a finger at me as if I'm the one making these claims...

  11. #31
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    nobody truly knows for sure, and that is why its FAITH.

  12. #32
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    sonoransixgun, it's no excuse but the last four months have been a grind with taking care of my mother and after a day or so re-reading my post I did come out pretty sharp in my post and I'm sorry for that. It is one of my many faults. Keep you powder dry, Don.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    "My answer is always the same: ‘Lie,’” .... Why lie, have respect for the child and not lie to them.
    An adult's mindless pursuit of "truth" in the hearts and minds of children in times of distress does more emotional damage than necessary. Why not reassure a "child" and give him some measure of comfort, like when someone in his family dies. Who or what is harmed in any way if we say, "He's gone to heaven and he won't hurt or be sick anymore but we'll all get to see him again when we get to heaven too."

    Some of us do know what happens after death but, no, it can't be proven in any scientific way. But science is a cold comfort; why lay the burden of some adult's doubt on a child long before he's able to deal with man-size questions?

    Seriously, other than inflating an adult's ego for always being "honest" with children, what good does transferring adult spiritual uncertainties do for a child who is confused and hurting RIGHT NOW? My compassion for children is much too great for me to lay the emotional burdens and spiritual wranglings of humanity at large on their small backs before they are strong enough to deal with it.

    I have always and will continue to "lie" about scientific questions of Jesus and heaven in order to comfort any hurting person within my reach. I'm just not going to ram other people's intellectual, spiritual or emotional adult confusions down children's throats before they are ready to deal with it.

    Kids grow up in due time, we can't stop it; I know that as an observed fact so I'm determined to make their progression as easy as possible. Meaning I will always "lie" about my Biblically orthodox view of God's heaven to people who are hurting, especially so to children.

  14. #34
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    what good does it do to lie to a child? it only serves to make the adult who is lying feel better. things can be told to a child to comfort them without lies.

  15. #35
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    Thanks, Don....respect for your dedication to mom....Hope you get through this time without too much pain....(I live in the desert so the powder's dry )

    Thanks, 1hole, always enjoy your words....makes so much sense.

    lefty o, you're entitled to your opinion, for sure, and I respect your freedom to have it....don't know your life situation and connection to kids, but what 1hole says above your post is the best response to your question "what good does it do to lie to a child?" I have have raised and am raising many kids of my own. My profession involves kids as well. What 1hole says is the truth of the matter to me....I see it like a young tree (and this is a limited metaphor). You put stakes and supports around it while it is growing because it can't just be left alone. The storms will destroy it. Kids need lots of support even though those supports may be "artificial." (Where the analogy breaks down for me is that I don't consider the supports artificial but rather real and true.) What psychology has proven is that these "artificial supports" are good for kids. You can argue with that but you're just arguing with research and contradicting it with your own opinion...

  16. #36
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    no what he said about lying to kids is not the best answer. there is no need to lie to kids. one might just try telling them that, i like to think he/she is in heaven being looked after by god. not a lie, and comforting. no matter how dumb some people think kids are, by the time they can talk most of them have the basic concept of heaven/hell understood, even those in non religious families. if one needs to lie to a kid about their religion, there is something wrong with the religion.

  17. #37
    Boolit Man sonoransixgun's Avatar
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    something wrong with the religion, or something wrong with the people??? a hundred years ago this was taught and believed by the great majority....the need to "lie" about it is a modern concept that reflects on modern people more than anything....

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoransixgun View Post
    something wrong with the religion, or something wrong with the people??? a hundred years ago this was taught and believed by the great majority....the need to "lie" about it is a modern concept that reflects on modern people more than anything....
    Christianity was never believed by a majority of the worlds population. Rarely more than a third. But maybe you mean the combined Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. A sizeable portion of the population Hindu and Buddhist believe in a different life after death, 1.7 billion people. Alternately, maybe my mean the U.S. population, yes the majority of U.S. residents claim to be Christian. There are some counties in the U.S. where almost everyone is Christian.

    Regarding lying to children. It is such a common practice that that lie probably does little harm and sometimes some good.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Why not reassure a "child" and give him some measure of comfort, like when someone in his family dies. Who or what is harmed in any way if we say, "He's gone to heaven and he won't hurt or be sick anymore but we'll all get to see him again when we get to heaven too."

    a child long before he's able to deal with man-size questions?
    Half of all children are girls, not he, his, he's or him but they, theirs or them. You would not want to be considered sexist! Not, man-size but adult size.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonoransixgun View Post
    something wrong with the religion, or something wrong with the people??? a hundred years ago this was taught and believed by the great majority....the need to "lie" about it is a modern concept that reflects on modern people more than anything....
    If the child your are talking too, is unlikely to have a friend who is Hindu or Buddhist the child will not likely question your concept of heaven. If the child goes to a school with a mix of peoples and relates your comforting story to their Hindu friend who then explains the process of reincarnation and karma. Are you going to tell the child that his friend is wrong and his deceased ancestor will not be reincarnated. It is a challenge being a "modern" person. We are exposed to a lot of different ideas, we are not growing up in a homogenous community but a instead a diverse community. We are exposed to a larger world with lots of different ideas.

    Tim
    Last edited by dtknowles; 12-31-2019 at 10:08 PM.
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

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