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Thread: why belief in God matters to kids....

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    ... Just exactly what reassurance do you think I'm supposed to get from your view of things?[/I]"
    Nothing anyone can say in death is guaranteed to help everyone in every situation; that's life, nothing's perfect, but what approach is better? I mean, if may I be so bold as to ask, what reassurance do you think your position offers anyone in any way and at any time?

    universe, and now they'll have to get on with whatever they have left; the believer will effectively tell a kid that the Supreme Being murdered Mom to further His own ends, and that the murderer will always be at large.
    Specious nonsense. No one, especially a kid, is going to twist things up like that so, effectively, your scenario is a lie. But even if someone should actually be silly enough to think in such warped terms, your "solution" would certainly be no less crushing.

    Short version - the notion of a "guiding hand" being behind all that happens is not necessarily going to be taken as a comfort by all it is presented to. I'll take - and do take - the random meteor strike conclusion every time. For some, "There is no 'WHY'" is a better place to proceed from, and looking for one only provides more misery. At the very least, presenting that view is often going to take many more supporting arguments - and you'd better be prepared to deliver them - to chill a traumatized child out. Hopefully, that explains to you why the non-spiritual should not attempt to guide anyone spiritually. What any of us perceive as a lie is harder to sell/maintain than what we perceive as the truth, and starting the conversation by lying to an innocent dealing with a lot of pain - or delivering them to someone who would lie for you by telling their version of the truth - is an ethical train wreck waiting to happen.
    Goodness. Are you actually saying we should "lie" to others by telling your spiritually ignorant version of truth? Ethical train wreck? Do you really think believers would do better to lie to the hurting by tell them some spacey version of your meteor story? Do you honestly think there could be any human comfort found in your poorly thought out stories?

    No offence intended but you sound quite young and inexperienced, I have to wonder how old you are?

  2. #62
    Boolit Master

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    I guess just shy of 50 is young for this forum, and you're clearly not picking up what I'm putting down.

    Yeah, I have my views, but this discussion is not about your system or mine being wrong; this is about the hazards of trying to pitch a system you have no confidence in. Basically the premise put forth in the OP is that Bernie Sanders should try his hand at preaching capitalism, regardless of his convictions to the contrary. Some folks are not fit to deliver certain messages. Good enough?

    And for the record, I'm not under any illusion that my system is offering any kind of comfort beyond "let's just yank this tooth and get it over with". Spiritual Novocaine works for some; others have trouble with the side effects. Is THAT good enough?
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion, Thanks 1hole for your contributions.

    I have a tangent question. Kind of the reverse.

    So you're a Christian and you have a family death (let's say grandpa) that you have to explain to your child. Grandpa was not a Christian. So how do you handle that? Just blatantly lie and say grandpa is in heaven?

    What if the child has knowledge of salvation and asks if grandpa was saved?

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    Ever been to a funeral of a heathen where the preacher obviously never met the man, then proceeds to preach him into heaven?

    I had a neighbor who was a nonbeliever. When she passed her daughter asked if I would be a pallbearer. We met at the mortician's place a few days later, loaded her up in the hurst, followed it to the cemetery, unloaded her casket over the hole. There where around a dozen family and friends there. No words where spoken as they lowered her into the hole, done and done. At least her wishes where carried out to the end, but it was about like I was burying a dead dog. Not even a celebration of life, just taking out the trash, and this woman was worth millions.

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    Interesting discussion,

    So you're a Christian and you have a family death (let's say grandpa) that you have to explain to your child. Grandpa was not a Christian. So how do you handle that? Just blatantly lie and say grandpa is in heaven?
    I can't say with any certainty how anyone should handle that of course but I'd say keep in mind you're dealing with a child who has a child-like understanding of the world. But, for sure, deal kindly - and hopefully - at his emotional level and let the bigger spiritual problems wait.

    What if the child has knowledge of salvation and asks if grandpa was saved?
    Tell the truth. Which is something like, "I don't know (After all, you really do not know!), but I know God loves you and, with his help, we'll all take care of you." No matter your fears for gramps, keep in mind that you're talking to an emotionally torn child and you really don't know which way the old dude has gone anyway so "honestly" leaping to say he's probably in hell, would indeed be a lie. And foolish, IMHO.


    * I'm on the cusp of 80; a lot of men don't make it here and few men get much older than me. Age means experience and experienced men (should) gain tempered wisdom. In my time I've met a lot of 49 year olds who still thought like 29 year olds, meaning they're cock sure they know all that's worth knowing! But I've observed that, if they live long enough, most of them will eventually gain some measure of patience and true wisdom, plus the tolerance to rightly apply all that youthful "knowledge"!

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your response 1hole.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
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    This reminds thread reminds me of the other tall tales that go with Christian/Western culture like the Easter bunny and Santa Clause. Fun for the kids but adults know better.
    EDG

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
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    I, for one, never taught my children in Santa Claus or an Easter rabbit for this very reason!

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    This reminds thread reminds me of the other tall tales that go with Christian/Western culture like the Easter bunny and Santa Clause.
    Tall tales that "go with"...? Goodness.

    Surely you don't want us to believe you actually think Santa Claus and Easter Bunnies are or have ever been Christian.

  10. #70
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    You agnostics and atheists are a riot! You claim to be "smarter" than the average Christian, but you sure don't show it. All you really show is that you expect God to be some sort of "Big Daddy in the Sky" - someone who is subservient to YOUR wills! How is it that you justify such a narrow and dim view as being "rational." REAL rational people look at ALL the evidence we have, and seek out some sort of understanding of it all. Do that and you'll find God and Truth. Take any other course, however willful you wish it to be, and you'll come up empty handed in the end, and that's not a desirable position to be in, at least to rational people. You just have a DESIRE to not believe, so ..... you just don't. That's your right entirely, and even Christ can't and won't interfere with your decision, and whatever effort or lack of it you put into the search. Just reading a book or two won't cut it, my friends. Nor will interpretations made from your adopted and very willful perspectives. You're really just not interested in finding the Truth about Christ. If you were, you'd have executed an earnest and honest search, which not a one of you have done. By "earnest and honest search" here, I mean a real, dedicated desire to know what is and what isn't. If you've read the Bible 1,000 times, but with your willful and pre-determined views and attitudes, you STILL couldn't possibly find the Truth. And you never really have intended to find it. You've taken this search as a light-hearted game, and decided you're too "bright" to just believe something without ever having had face-to-face and tactal experience with something.

    Let me ask all of you something: If our research scientists had taken this view, and assumed there was no other rational behavior to follow, how could they ever have many of the wondrous principles we have today, that has literally changed our world? Boys, you're still in the Stone Age when it comes to thinking! NOT the "superior intellects" you claim to be. You're just more willful and vindictive than the average Christian. And I'm not saying here that the "average Christian" is any paragon of virtue, either! We are merely saved sinners, that often, if not usually, have a hard time abandoning our previous sinful ways and sometimes, our sinful attitudes. We are sometimes, in the ultimate sense, a sorry lot, but we will make it to Heaven if only we trust and obey the words of our Savior, Jesus Christ. If you're not interested in that, then so be it. None of us here have any right to try to make your decisions FOR you. Christ only wants people He can TRUST in Heaven, and people who intentionally pass by His portal for entry, simply will never be allowed in. I hate it for you, but again, I nor anyone else can make these decisions FOR you. YOU must make them YOURSELF, and enjoy the fruits, or suffer the consequences accordingly. Laugh at this if you wish. But it's the simple Truth, and many have found it. My young Down's Syndrome cousin found it. You could if you wish to. Or if you don't, nobody's going to try to force you to believe. Typically, you view discussions of theology as simple "targets" for your insolence and pretentious dogmas. That's YOUR decision and it will hurt NO Chistian, though I'm sure you'd like to think otherwise. In short, you're just a strongly "opinionated" bunch who really aren't interested in what's really True, and what's not, and you go through your lives trying to spread your silly and unounded doubts to others, assumedly to show your "superiority" and your "more rational" approach to these matters. But for those who've had a real, personal experience with the Lord, your efforts will always be in vain. I pray for you, even though those are prayers that I can't expect to be answered very often. But then, a lot of folks who've been staunch agnostics or atheists, who thought they were immune from Christ's influence, DID in the end become converts, and more power to them! Closing one's heart to Christ's knocking at the door generally prevents any acceptance of Him. But nothing works all the time, even this, and if you ever have a moment when the door to your heart squeaks open .... well, anything can happen. C. S. Lewis was a staunch and assumedly unconvertible atheist, about as "pure" as any you'll ever find or read about or deal with. He set about to PROVE the folly in Christianity and all other religions, and in the process, he not only became a convert, he became Catholic, which sect has long been the heaviest target for non-believers' aspersions and "logic." If you want to find out if Christ is real or not, seek Him out, but do it with sincerity and an openness to ALL the indicators and evidence you consider, and DON'T pick and choose what you consider, as most all atheists and agnostics tend to do. And once you convert, if that happens, don't expect to be turned instantly into a saint. That takes a long series of trials and provenances to achieve, and very, very few have ever reached the end of that laudible journey. It's all up to you, my friends. All up to you. But you're the only ones who may pay the price for your willful agnosticism or atheism, not any of us. So I'll continue to pray for you, whether you prove amenable to the Truth, or not. God bless you. He watched over me whan I was in my sins. He watches over you as well.

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