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Thread: opinions

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    292

    opinions

    Just picked up this old muzzleloader. It was described as a factory coach gun (24" barrels), not cut. This always raises my eye brows. Anyhow, the muzzles touch together which generally doesn't indicate cut barrels. If they were cut back to 24" there should be a fair space between the barrels at the muzzles. Also I can't detect any saw marks. It also has the old bead front sight positioned about where it should be and it has the little lug on the underside of the barrels to keep the ramrod in. The solder is missing from between the barrels below the top rib but yet it is there on the bottom and looks original. So I don't know if the solder fell out or?? So looking for opinions on if it's an original "coach gun" or just a hack job.
    Haven't decided if it's going back yet as it was described as an English coach gun because it says London Twist on the rib. Well, it has Belgian proof marks.
    The right barrel also had an old charge of about #7 shot in it. Took me 1 1/2 hours to remove that old load!! Ya never know.




  2. #2
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    IMO the rib needs to be resolded, the filler is missing on the top.
    Barrels have been cut.

    However removing a charge from the barrel makes the buy un-returnable. You went beyond what I would have allowed on a sale. notifying the buyer then that it was loaded is what you should have done. But then I would never have shipped it loaded anyway.

    However the gun is NOT what was presented with the info you provided.
    Last edited by Geezer in NH; 12-23-2019 at 06:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy

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    Glad you got the old load out in either case of returning it or keeping it. You didn't FIRE IT, just made it safe. It does need repair. I can't say if it was cut or not FOR SURE, but I would guess that it has been cut. If it was cheap enough and otherwise safe (your decision, not mine) keep it, repair it, and have fun with it.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    I could have returned it, even after removing the charge. The seller also gave me the option of a discount. I decided to keep it as I got it darn cheap. It will be another winter project.
    I'm still not sure about those barrels being cut though. I have seen cut barrels before on vintage double barrels and the barrels almost always never touch at the muzzles after being cut. The only time they might touch would be if just a very small amount was cut off because of damage.
    If this muzzleloader was cut, then it would likely have had an original barrel length from 28 to 32 inches. There is no way the barrels would touch together being cut back to 24 inches. In order for them to touch, the ribs would have had to have been removed and the barrels regulated and the ribs soldered back on. That is a lot of work and certainly not warranted on a gun of this type/value., I have seen though, cases where the filler solder has fallen out from below the top rib on vintage guns.
    If it were not for the barrels touching together at the muzzles, I would say they were cut. But for them to be touching together, particularly at 24" being a muzzleloader, has me leaning toward it being made that way originally. But, I could be wrong! Actually Geezer, I wouldn't mind knowing your reasoning for thinking they are cut just to broaden my knowledge base. Are you basing it on the missing solder below the top rib?
    Last edited by BPJONES; 12-24-2019 at 09:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
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    The piece should be a little piece of iron or steel soldered in place not just solder. Barrels can touch much further back than at just the muzzle at 18 to 20 they are still tapering in but by 24 they can touch till the muzzle. I say this from the barrels we re-soldered the ribs on in the shop.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check