afternoon jaunt with .38 specials

[sonoransixgun]

I loaded up fifty rounds of .38 specials for a quick outing...The bullets were Lee 358-158-RF with 5.5 grains of Unique. Course it's fun any time out shooting, but I feel like there is much exploring and improving to be done with my .357 BH. Accuracy was mediocre. I want to try some different bullets, and I need to get some .357 brass. No doubt accuracy will improve with those bullets kissing the cone. You can see the six shot group I got at 30 yards after 35 rounds down the range. Not too bad, but not too good.





My kids love shooting with me, so they slung some lead too. They grew up shooting in 4-H and aren't shabby at all with the irons.



Here's some bullets someone gave me. I want to try them next, hopefully with some .357 brass. Are these from an RCBS mold? If they end up being good, I want to get the mold.



Thanks!

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=sHere's some bullets someone gave me. I want to try them next, hopefully with some .357 brass. Are these from an RCBS mold? If they end up being good, I want to get the mold.![/QUOTE]

RCBS makes a Keith style SWC that looks like that.
With or without a gas check.

Its such a favorite, I think every mold makes has them.

I've got the one for gas checks, and really like it. It will do well for you too.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Looks good to me! Depending on the alloy, I'd try easing that load down a bit to see if you get the accuracy you desire. Probably fine for shooting 38s outside, but I'd get the kids some better ear protection for the big boomers or shooting indoors. Those Chinese muffs are marginal at best.

[Kenstone]

I've had good luck loading/shooting 148 dewc (don't know the mold #) with that same powder charge, and 38 cases.
The key was seating the bullets out/long and crimping in the lube groove to get the bullet into the cylinder throat and almost out to the cylinder front.
Something you could try with the brass you have, just a different bullet.
Kinda like this (not my pic, stolen off the net):

The case in the pic could be a 357, no way of knowing, but it shows what crimping in a lube groove looks like.
Lots of other stuff you can do to improve accuracy too.

Edit: another bonus doing that, you can load them hot without concern of shooting them in a 38sp revolver because they are so long they will tie up the cylinder on a 38sp gun.

[Tatume]

Cool knife. Is it Norwegian?

[sonoransixgun]

Thanks for the input....Silvercreek, I've tried lower loads and they were worse. I think it might be the bullet...Yeah, cheap muffs....we po' folk...Thanks for that tip, Kenstone, I like it and will try it, especially since I have plenty of .38 brass and hardly any .357....Tatume, knife is one I made, modeled after the Scandinavian style, yes....

[Cherokee]

I found the Lee 158 RF to be accurate for me in 357 cases.

[wv109323]

For any revolver the cylinder throat diameter and bore diameter are critical for accuracy. The bullet can not be downsized as it passes through the throats . You can take your sized bullet and try them in the throats.
Next once the bullets go through the throats they need to be .001" over measured bore diameter.
I have good sucess with RCBS 158 g. RN, a NEI 158 SWC and a NOE 158 SWC. I have found that 3.5 g of WST a good target load. I got very good results with 4.6 g of WW231 but that is a hot load and over some reloading manuals max.
I used a S&W model 14 for testing with a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. The 4.6 g. Of 231 was 1 5/8" and the 3.5 g. Of WST IS 2.0" . I could not tell any difference between the molds in accuracy. I use the NOE because it is a 5 cavity. I have a friend that uses the Lee 158 RN tumble lube wath alox and says it is accurate with 700X. Of course these are .38 Spec. Loads.

[Misery-Whip]

Looks good to me. Every shot is in the red. Try making your bulls smaller before changing the load. Aim smaller, finer trigger control.

[Forrest r]

I've had good luck loading/shooting 148 dewc (don't know the mold #) with that same powder charge, and 38 cases.
The key was seating the bullets out/long and crimping in the lube groove to get the bullet into the cylinder throat and almost out to the cylinder front.
Something you could try with the brass you have, just a different bullet.
Kinda like this (not my pic, stolen off the net):

The case in the pic could be a 357, no way of knowing, but it shows what crimping in a lube groove looks like.
Lots of other stuff you can do to improve accuracy too.

Edit: another bonus doing that, you can load them hot without concern of shooting them in a 38sp revolver because they are so long they will tie up the cylinder on a 38sp gun.

The big picture, they're 38spl cases loaded for a 357 (s&w 686)
[IMG][/IMG]

Those loads pictured above made for shooting shotgun shells @ 50ft. The mihec 640's are crimped long/in the bottom crimp groove. The wc's are seated to cylinder length. 6-shot groups @ 50ft that are not hand/cherry picked by any means. Nothing more than the test targets used that day to test those loads.
[IMG][/IMG]

[sonoransixgun]

Great suggestion, Misery-Whip, which I'll be sure to do next time out....my usual marker dried up and I grabbed a rattle can the kids were using and got a little out of control...

That's amazing shootin, Forrest r!

[tazman]

I've had good luck loading/shooting 148 dewc (don't know the mold #) with that same powder charge, and 38 cases.
The key was seating the bullets out/long and crimping in the lube groove to get the bullet into the cylinder throat and almost out to the cylinder front.
Something you could try with the brass you have, just a different bullet.
Kinda like this (not my pic, stolen off the net):

The case in the pic could be a 357, no way of knowing, but it shows what crimping in a lube groove looks like.
Lots of other stuff you can do to improve accuracy too.

Edit: another bonus doing that, you can load them hot without concern of shooting them in a 38sp revolver because they are so long they will tie up the cylinder on a 38sp gun.

I once did a test run with ammunition loaded like that for my K frame Target Masterpiece. The boolits were loaded cylinder length and were a tight sliding fit to the throats. I had to push each cartridge into the chamber firmly to fully chamber them.
They were extremely accurate that way but a real pain to load into the gun. I quit doing that after a couple of runs from the aggravation.
The only place I saw the extra accuracy was from a rest. Offhand, I couldn't tell the difference.
Obviously, I am not a good enough shot to make use of the extra accuracy afforded by loading that way.
For those of you who are good enough shots, go for it. It does improve the accuracy of the gun.

[sniper]

I loaded up fifty rounds of .38 specials for a quick outing...The bullets were Lee 358-158-RF with 5.5 grains of Unique. I want to try some different bullets, and I need to get some .357 brass. No doubt accuracy will improve with those bullets kissing the cone. You can see the six shot group I got at 30 yards after 35 rounds down the range. Not too bad, but not too good.



Here's some bullets someone gave me. I want to try them next, hopefully with some .357 brass. Are these from an RCBS mold? If they end up being good, I want to get the mold.



Thanks!

Not quite in order, but here goes!
30 yards? That group is very respectable, seeing as you were shooting at a 9" plate! Offhand? Geez...count your blessings!

My go-to load for decades has been 5.5 gr. Unique/standard primer/357 brass, 150 gr RCBS boolit. 860 fps chrono'ed Accuracy?? I don't know, I was shooting IPSC...but they always hit the target, if I did my job. Didn't make major, but if you shoot well enough, that's not much of a handicap. I never finished first, but never last. Usually somewhere in the middle of the pack.

That appears to be a boolit from the RCBS 150 SWC K mould. My favorite til I quit casting some years ago. Lyman makes a similar 150 gr. mould, but from the pictures I see on line, the edges aren't as sharp and square as the RCBS version. Either will probably do what you want.

FWIW, RCBS offers a 158gr. mould for a gas check...usually ends up about 162 gr. with the check. Works O.K., too. Just doesn't look as cool as the 150 gr one.

[mdi]

FWIW; When I get a revolver I measure the cylinder throats and slug the barrel. First to make sure the throats are larger than groove diameter and second, to get a good size for my bullets (I size the bullets to the same diameter as the throats. I don't use "drop through", "push through", "snug", "loose" etc., as those aren't measurements and will vary from user to user). I have 7 revolvers that I use this method with and rarely have barrel leading...

[Jniedbalski]

I would be very happy with accuracy like that 30 yards . Guess I need more practice

[Kenstone]

The big picture, they're 38spl cases loaded for a 357 (s&w 686)
[IMG][/IMG]

Those loads pictured above made for shooting shotgun shells @ 50ft. The mihec 640's are crimped long/in the bottom crimp groove. The wc's are seated to cylinder length. 6-shot groups @ 50ft that are not hand/cherry picked by any means. Nothing more than the test targets used that day to test those loads.
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for quoting me, and telling the rest of your story relating to the image I pirated from you
I have found bullets seated that way are very accurate no matter what powder is used.

[sonoransixgun]

Very interesting account, tazman, thanks….I’m most interested in accuracy, best the gun can do, so your type of experiment is right up my alley…

Thanks for the info, sniper…full disclosure, I was resting on a folding chair, so not exactly offhand….working on that….but I want to dial the gun and load in first….I appreciate the advice on the molds. Sounds like RCBS is what I’m lookin for.

Thanks, mdi, haven’t done that yet with this revolver, but I need to.

Appreciate that, Jniedbalski…

Kenstone….just sharin the wealth…

[35remington]

“Next once the bullets go through the throats they need to be .001" over measured groove diameter.”

Fixed that one for you. Too often bore is said here and elsewhere when groove is meant. Bore diameter is the land to land distance and if a cast bullet was 0.001” over measured “bore diameter” it would be hopelessly inaccurate.

Forgive the terminology nazism.

[sonoransixgun]

Thanks for the clarification, 35remington, no offense at all...

[Forrest r]

Great suggestion, Misery-Whip, which I'll be sure to do next time out....my usual marker dried up and I grabbed a rattle can the kids were using and got a little out of control...

That's amazing shootin, Forrest r!

Thank you for that but in reality those are the kind of groups you need to be competitive with it you shoot nra bullseye/50ft line/most indoor ranges, winter league.

Don't shoot bullseye anymore, those loads were tested in a nib 686 I bought with less than 200 rounds thru it. No mods were done to that 686, I bought several s&w's over the decades that shot like that right out of the box. A picture of a cut-a-way of a revolver cylinder. The oal of the top round is short enough that theirs a gap between the ball throat and leade of the throat. The bottom round has a long enough oal that the body of the bullet is seated in the throat's leade.
[IMG][/IMG]

The mihec 640 bullet (fn hp) pictured in post #10 is sized to .358" and the shoulder of that bullet sits in the leade of that 686's cylinder like the bullet does pictured above. Those wc's on the other hand are sized to .357/.3575 and sit it the throat of the revolver. Doing this makes it easy to find extremely accurate loads with multiple powders.

It's nothing new to load ammo this way with cast bullets. Several years ago did some testing with a mihec 220gr hbwc and a s&w 624 looking for 25yd line loads. Tested the bullet at different seating depths along with traditional lube in 1 groove/2 grooves/tumble lubed/tl + 1 groove/tl + 2 grooves.


Turned out it didn't matter how that hbwc was lubed, it shot bugholes when it was seated/crimped in the bottom lube groove.