south bend 9B for gunsmithing

[kens]

Wow thanks for all the replies. I have been deer hunting so have not been logged in for a while, I am just kind of thinking and looking now. This is a plan to occupy my time in retirement, along with maybe a bit of income supplement, about 8 years away. I have begun work on sporting a 1895 Lowe to learn some skills. I just got the receiver off the barrel and beginning to clean it up and remove the stripper clip boss, anyone know where a guy can get a receiver holding fixture for a 1895 all I seem to find is for the 98s.

it's in your lathe

[Green Frog]

Green Frog. a second lathe is handy even a smaller one. It can save a lot of time when you have a job going and set up in the other and need a pin or bushing made to fit. When we sleeved bearing races we bored the journal out and measured it. ( usually .050-.100 on a side). Then went to a second lathe turned the bushing up for size to size or .0005 press. and the bore with in .050. This was cut to length and pushed in with light coat of red locktite with the face of the tail stock spindle on the original machine and bored to sized. The second machine saved a touchy set up and recentering. The second lathe can save a lot f time and energy

Absolutely... more is always better if you want efficiency of production. Of course you reach a point of diminishing returns if you aren’t doing a lot of machine work. My 11” Sheldon lathe is big enough for about anything I’m likely to do, but if I had a little lathe for cutting screws and pins and winding small springs it would probably be nice. But I’m not doing much of anything in the shop these days, so it’s hard to justify adding another unused machine!

OTOH, the grand uncle from whom I inherited the Sheldon was retired from a large foundry and used it as his little lathe. His big one was a beast! But even after many years of work and retirement, he still “puttered around” in the shop with his stuff, it was long since paid for, and he enjoyed it right up until he was too old and infirm to do much of anything. I envy him on that, but machining is not enough in my routine to justify more equipment. The ultimate value of machine tools depends on the person using them.

Froggie

[Geezer in NH]

I did lots of barrel work on my 9 SB

New guys can't figure out how as they are not really machinists. Just parts replacers like 99% of AR gunsmiths.

[john.k]

If you are looking to buy ,certain lathes have a magic name as far as hobby buyers are concerned.......You can generally get a less well know name for a lot less money.....And before you shell out your hard earned ,best to find out some in s and outs of used machines,mainly so you dont get caught by a shark with a can of green paint.

[country gent]

Lathes are a little region oriented as to make also even in industry. Lodge and Shipley, Monarch, White, Sheldons were popular around here. Up around Detroit clausings, Americans, hendis were popular. Schools liked the smaller atlas , clausing, sheldons, and Rockwell. This may have some bearing on whats available in your area. Hardringes are a great small lathe with a nice sized spindle hole and very accurate. A popular tool room lathe, but the tooling is more specialized for them. Another factor is the industry in the area. An area with a lot of shipping and boat yards the lathes tend to be bigger and mush longer beds. Same with the mills. Autos industry lathes are more sized to what a hobbyist wants but the mills can be pretty big.

[izzyjoe]

South bend 9 is a good lathe, I've seen guys do a lot, with a lot less!

[trenches]

I was given a SB 405 lathe. It was fun getting it into the basement. It has 4' bed. As I go I buy tooling if needed. So far it has done everything that I asked of it. From what I found it was made in 1934 or so. It's still going strong.

[Scrounge]

When I went to CST they had about 10 9" South Bends and taught barrel fitting and chambering on them. They were setting up their first Heavy 10 just before I left. The 9 inch lathes will work but will be slower than using a lathe that will take the barrel through the headstock.

If you find a great deal on a 9 inch lathe don't turn it down. It is much easier to find a lathe for sale if you already have one.

Got that right on the finding another lathe thing! You can do barrel work on a chinese mini-lathe, and the Atlas 10" & 12" lathes have approximately the same spindle bore as the 7x mini-lathes. It just ain't easy, apparently. http://www.packratworkshop.com/pdf/m...e%20rifles.pdf

[Scrounge]

Lathes are a little region oriented as to make also even in industry. Lodge and Shipley, Monarch, White, Sheldons were popular around here. Up around Detroit clausings, Americans, hendis were popular. Schools liked the smaller atlas , clausing, sheldons, and Rockwell. This may have some bearing on whats available in your area. Hardringes are a great small lathe with a nice sized spindle hole and very accurate. A popular tool room lathe, but the tooling is more specialized for them. Another factor is the industry in the area. An area with a lot of shipping and boat yards the lathes tend to be bigger and mush longer beds. Same with the mills. Autos industry lathes are more sized to what a hobbyist wants but the mills can be pretty big.

Yep. I live in oil country. Lots of BIG lathes here. Guy I used to go to church with has one sitting out in his yard with a chuck over a yard across. And it's longer than several of the trucks he has parked there. I'm hving a bit of trouble shoe-horning the HF 7x10 (24" bed), Atlas TH42 (42" bed), and SB Heavy 10L (4-1/2' bed), into the shop as it is. I am in a machining class, and won't be calling myself a gunsmith because I'm unlikely to live long enough to really get good at the machining, but I'm having fun. If I could find a 13" Clausing Colchester that I could afford, I'd sure like to buy it! That's my go-to lathe at school. Closest thing they have to the Atlas & SB. But it's not very close. Atlas is 267#, SB is 1067#, and the CC is 2700# (5' or 6' bed) and counts as a tiny lathe around here.

[mrmachinist]

I would love an old us made lathe. I have a hf lathe and mill at home and I make a lot of good parts on them but they take forever with the small cuts I have to take on the machine due to its lack of rigidity. I find myself turning things on the cncs at work more often than not.


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[country gent]

We had clausing 10" X 40 lathes at trade school and they were very good machines. Also a big hendi and a couple Cincinnati 16 x 72 or so.It is easier to do a barrel with it thru the head stock but if you have the bed it can be done on a steady rest. The little Hardringe lathes would do good with the 1 1/2 spindle bore but they are expansive in poor conditions.
Clausings used an odd chuck mount a tapered nose with key and a threaded ring to tighten in place with a large spanner to tighten.

I have a nardinni 14 / 18 X 40 lathe 7 hp and 3500 lbs 2" + spindle bore. Aloris tool post and tooling. steady rest and follower rest. Its a d series 6 pin mount. Digital read out on this machine Next up is a 12 X 40 lathe, around 2000 lbs 2 hp and 1 1/2" spindle bore. Aloris post and holders are shared with the Nardinni. Also a d series mount but 3 pin. Steady rest and follower rest with it. Last is a HF mini 7 X 12
5c collets and closers for both machines. I have worked with Monarch, atlas, white, leblonde, american die setter, hardringe, warner and swasey, bridgeport/romey, sheldon, rockwell lathes over the years.
All have their strong points and weak areas. but all will do good work with a skilled operator.
Get what you can find / afford learn it and buy or make tooling as needed.

[redneck1]

The L00 spindle nose clausing used is a very accurate way to Mount a chuck , but hold onto your pocket book if you buy a lathe and it doesn't come with the chucks .

[gzig5]

I've seen a smith (google Les Brooks Mini Lathe) thread and chamber a profiled blank for a Mini-Mauser to 17 Remington in a 7x12 mini lathe that shot sub 1/2" groups when done. He chambered or converted several rifles and made a lot of tooling with that lathe, sometimes working out of his RV camper. It's the Indian, not the arrow.

Having said that, among others, I've owned a 14"x40 Rockwell, two long bed SB heavy 10s, 12"x36 Atlas/Craftsman, 9x30 Southbend, and currently have an 11" EMCO (Austrian, not chinese), 6x18 Atlas, EMCO PC micro lathe, and a no name Jewelers lathe where a toothpick is a large work piece. It is always easier to get good results using the heaviest, most rigid machine you have access to.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK: I'm going to inject a little reality into this thread. A South Bend 9" lathe will do what you need to do. However you won't be able to make it do what you want until you learn how to use it. This will take you some time as you aren't being pushed or coached by a lead man or foreman who is mainly interested in getting work out the door.

I learned on JUNK! and there were many scrapped pieces as well as some welding done to recover from mistakes. I learned how to compensate for the junk machine's inaccuracies. It was still hit and miss because the machine was barely capable of making something round.

I can make some older machines perform because I know how to take the slack out of them, and know what tools to use, and all of the other things that 40 years of making chips taught me. You don't have this experience, and as such you will go thru a major period of frustration simply because the machine you bought was junk and you didn't know it when you bought it.

Some of the old machines are good. Hardinge Lathes are among the best ever made, but not cheap. The Single Point Threading System on an HLV is the best anyone ever came up with, and would come in real handy for threading barrels, because it makes it so simple your wife could do it . The Spindle on a HLV is big enough to swallow most any gun barrel with the Collet Closer removed. These machines are @6 feet long and 3 feet wide and run on three phase 220. or a phase converter or 5 hp electric motor set up to act as a Phase Converter.

Do your self a favor,. You don't have to buy one of these machines as a decent one will set you back $5K or more. But you can buy a new Grizzly https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...al-lathe/g0602 for $1700 and have something that would actually allow you to do meaningful work immediately.

Instead of trying to learn how to make JUNK Perform.

The shop I started in had nothing but Junk Machines from the 30's, and that was in 1975. The machines you are talking about in this thread are the same machines except they are now 50 years older. And granted some were actually taken care of but most weren't and you don't know the difference.

It was so refreshing to stand in front of a machine that would actually do what I told it to as opposed to trying to figure out what it would actually do and then compensate for it.

Believe me life is too short to use inferior machines. If you spend a little more you'll probably get more, but the one thing that rises above all else when talking about older machines is where they were on the scale when new,,, And all South Bends were way down the list!,,, and then modify that with the age and condition of the machine to see just how bad it is.. IE: A Monarch 10EE in very well used condition is a better machine than a Brand New South Bend Lathe, every day of the week! Even a new Taiwanese made Engine Lathe is better than a old worn out American Made machine.

If you are serious about doing what you talked about in Post #1 you'd be well served by listening to what I have said here and shop around until you find a machine that is better suited to what you want to accomplish.

You aren't going to find anything for $500 that is even worthy of the space in your garage. Been there and done this for 40+ years and it never changes. I haven't seen a South Bend Lathe that was worthy of consideration in the last 30years.

I hope you and others don't take direct offense at this post but it has been my observation since I started and went from my first shop to the place that had nice machines and then thru my garage to a real live working machine shop with Bridgeport Mills and Hardinge Lathes.

You can't blame a quality machine for your bad work. But you probably won't get much quality work out of junk, no matter how good you are.

Randy

[Mk42gunner]

I've been kind of looking for a lathe for a few years, and all that I found that was somewhat affordable was just as Randy described-- junk. Not to mention having to look for old used tooling that may or may not work with the lathe you find.

Grizzly isn't that far from my house, so if or when I have the spare money and the time to devote to it, I will be getting a new machine. I just have too many more important projects in the pile right now.

Robert

[country gent]

I got lucky when I was looking for my machines. A friend I shot high power with had ended up in a nursing home and I was offered his equipment. 2 lathes a bridgeport mill and surface grinder all with tooling for a very good price. The lathes were new in 1980 the mill was refurbished in late 80s, I knew the owner for years and they were in a one man shop.

Buying "one stop" also greatly lower the price for having them tooling and stock moved.

[Hdskip]

Having spent a total of 45 years in the machining business I would echo everything Randy said and consider it good advise for the aspiring craftsman. It is spot on advise.
Gary

[MrWolf]

Nice write-up Randy. I keep saying one of these days and hoping to get enough done around here that one of these days will be by the end of the year. I keep reading these types of posts and am starting to compile a list of everything I will need. I know tools will cost me much more than the lathe will. Thanks again.
Ron

[mrmachinist]

This reminds me I need to fix the half nut on my HF lathe. Cleaning the shop out this weekend. Maybe I will be able to get to it again.


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[Deadeye Bly]

I bought my 9" SB from a retired gunsmith who had retired from the Army in the late 40's or early 50's and had bought it new when he set up a private gunsmithing business. He had worked at Springfield with James Howe, Townsend Whelen, Julian Hatcher and others. He knew a bit about gunsmithing. He had done a lot of custom gunsmithing with the lathe before I bought it in the late 70's. I have turned over 180 new Maynard barrels on the lathe as well as lots of other barrels. The longest barrel I completed on it was a 34" barrel. Yes, a 9" South Bend can get the job done if that is what you have. I just threaded and fitted a long octagon barrel on my 11" Logan. I got it done but for me it is more awkward to use than the SB. It just would not go thru the spindle of the SB. Yes, a newer lathe may be better in some respects but s 9" SB in good shape should not be overlooked.