A 38 Special case is specified at 1.155 X .379 while a 357 Magnum case is 1.290 X .379. Other than the length they appear the same. What is the difference, what makes the magnum load case stronger. Is it possible to use a 38 Special case as a 357 Magnum case?
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never mind
Last edited by Kenstone; 12-11-2019 at 12:34 AM.
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
Physically, there is really not much difference for most brands.
Many have loaded 38 special cases with loads that reach magnum pressures.
In really strong guns, both 38 cases and 357 cases can be loaded well above the SAAMI limit for 357s. Even if some 38 brass is thinner than 357 brass, it does not mean that it will fail. As long as the gun is stout enough, 38 brass will not fail. However, if your gun is not a strong gun, thinner brass may be a concern as it will result in more chamber wall stress.
Long ago, I gave up loading 38s & 357s hotter than the SAAMI limit based on headstamp. Over the years, I have found individual rounds or small batches of ammo that I loaded as a youngster that got "lost in the shuffle" at some point in time. Some of this ammo could have caused problems if it had been fired in a weaker gun.
If you choose to go over the limit, careful segregation and very obvious "use only in xxx" marking is a minimum reasonable attempt at preventing a disaster. If you load hot in a 38 special make sure your OAL is not shorter than the min OAL listed for your reference data.
However, in my opinion it really is better to just get the right brass and keep within recent vintage published load data that includes pressure information. If you can afford a 357 magnum gun and 357 magnum reloading consumables, is it really worth cutting corners to save a few bucks on brass.
For 357 mag guns, using the right brass also eliminates any possible "crud ring" chamber buildup that can occur. I actually load 38 special power level loads in 357 mag cases just for this reason.
Last edited by P Flados; 12-11-2019 at 12:09 AM.
I advise you to NOT. Even if you seat the bullet for a long cartrige length;the headstamp will be misleading. (And this topic is discussed over and over on the web.)
My reasoning is i have a 38 revolver. Any "magnum 38" would find a way in there eventually. If not by me then a loved one. And 357 brass is way, way cheaper than a new revolver or emergency room visit. If you cant find any here for sale, there are several companies such as oncefiredbrass.com that will sell you 100ct for $8.50.
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This thread reads almost verbatim as an old thread on the same subject...
Re-hashing/repeating an old condition like this has become the norm, with the only variation being the time interval, days, weeks, years.
I'll be editing/deleting my prior posts here...
Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
Actually there are two types of 38 special brass with the crimp groove about 1 caliber down from the mouth. These are for wadcutters, standard 38 special brass has no crimp groove. The wadcutter brass isn't as strong as standard or plus P brass. Then you have your basic 357 brass which should be good for plus P loadings. So it does not pay to try and use either 38 special case for 357 magnum loadings. We only get one set of eyes. I have a 40mm ammo can full of 38 special brass. These came from a buddy who ran concealed handgun permit classes. Lot of the shooters used wadcutters others standard 38 special brass with either 158 lead or jacketed bullets. Plenty of wadcutter boxes in the trash. Frank
This topic comes up from time to time.Originally Posted by bbogue1
It is possible to assemble a cartridge that will produce 357 mag level pressures in a 38 Special casing but THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE.
Once the cartridge is assembled there is no way to distinguish it from any other 38 Special casing. Even if you mark the cartridge or segregate it from other 38 Special cartridges; you're the only one that knows the danger.
I will admit to having assembled overpressure 38 Special loads and shooting them in 357 magnum revolvers but I will not repeat that unsafe practice.
The possibility of an over-pressure cartridge somehow finding its way into the wrong gun always exists. It is just not worth the risk to create that over pressure round.
There's nothing to be gained that outweighs the risk you are unnecessarily creating.
Everyone covered the important stuff above. But-- since you asked, the reason the 357 Magnum case is longer than the 38 Special case is simply to prevent accidents. It was designed that way so that nobody can put a 357 Magnum load in a 38 Special. At the peak of popularity of the 38 Special, shooters started developing hotter loads for 38 Special. There was a problem with those hotter loads finding their way into older guns-- with bad results. The solution was to design a 38 case just for hotter loads, and make it too long to fit in the 38 Special guns. That new case was called 357 Magnum. The case is the same, just longer.
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In earlier times of my life, I ran my loads warm-ish. Not unsafely warm, but they were full value in most calibers. Now......not so much. I don't like the crud rings left by shooting Special brass in Magnum chambers, so my 357 and 44 Magnums get fed loads put up in full-length brass--though seldom in full-strength intensities. I like standard-weight SWCs at 900-1100 FPS in my MagRevs these days. The Ruger 45 Colt with a 250-260 grain SWC running in the black-powder ZIP Code of 1000 FPS is one heck of a powerful handgun. Yeah, they can run such a bullet to 1250 FPS. Well, OK--but mastodons died out a few years prior to my birth, and I don't need a revolver that kicks as hard on one end as it does on the other. All of that BARKing and bucking just isn't as much fun as it once was.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
One reason to use 38 Special cases is to load 170 grain 0.358" rifle bullets for use in a revolver. If loaded in 357 Magnum cases the cartridges will be too long for some guns. However, the more prudent course of action is to trim 357 Magnum cases to 38 Special length, and reserve them for this special purpose load. That way you have an appropriate head stamp with which to identify the cartridge.
Lyman mould # 358156 has two crimping grooves , use the 38 special case and seat the boolit in the lower crimp groove and it gives you the same capacity as a longer 357 magnum case .
Back in the day 38 special were plentiful and free , just pick them up at any public range .
357 magnum brass was scarce as hen's teeth .
If you have 357 magnum brass just seat and crimp into the top crimp groove . Loading 38 special with 38 special loads , seat the boolits and crimp in the top groove .
Works both ways . I loaded magnum loads in 38 special brass like this for decades and you could tell the hot loaded ones because the boolits stuck out the case farther .
Lyman # 358156...they still make this mould .
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My wife has a 38 Special revolver and I have a 357 Magnum revolver. I have often shot 38 special cartridges in my 357 mag, but not at 357 pressures, I wouldn't try that. This is not to say I'm any kind of expert, I just don't want to take the chance. As stated above I have bought 357 mag brass from oncefiredbrass.com before and they are a very trustworthy company. That is the route I would take.
My first mold, and some of my first handloads were made to Skeeter Skeleton's specs. The Lyman 358156 seated over a XX.X grains of 2400. The bullets as mentioned have two crimp grooves and I don't even want to think about what would occur if the bullet was seated to the .38 groove over that charge.
A few years ago I bought some .38 Spec brass from someone on this board that was described as WCC Heavy. At least, that is what I identified the can I put them in. The headstamp only has WCC and some number that I can't read reliably.
To check them I compared the weight of these with a standard .38 Spec case.
WCC Heavy = 74.4 Gr
Federal std = 63.8 Gr
Detailed measurements might turn up other differences but I have not done this.
I don't know what that translates to in terms of strength. Maybe nothing. I haven't tried loading any of these cases and I'm not sure why I thought I needed them to begin with. The fact that the headstamp does NOT include a cartridge designation is probably not enough to guarantee that a too heavy load would not be inadvertently loaded into an inappropriate revolver. For now, I guess they will continue to sit on the shelf.
John
W.TN
Your WCC brass being heavy would indicate to me that the walls and base are thicker.
Have you checked the capacity of these cases compared to the Federal?
I would use them for medium to standard 38 loads. I would not push them to +p levels. You have them, use them.
As others have mentioned and I agree, If you want magnum level loads for your magnum the use magnum brass.
Leo
I'm not interested in pushing these cases to +P levels. I might load them to max .38 Spec levels as shown in the manuals. As I said in my post, I don't remember why I bought them. I don't load anything beyond what the manuals say is max. Actually, I don't go that far. Almost all my shooting these days is with comfortable loads which translates from starting to medium.
John
W.TN
Yes, but please DO NOT do that. Ever.
The Magnum case is longer for a reason...It's all fun and games until you or somebody else shoves one of your 38 Magnums into an airweight or an old antique and loses an eye or blows off their fingers.
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