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Thread: tire question

  1. #61
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    Rick Hodges's Avatar
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    My experience with a brand new '05 Subaru Forester was anything but pleasant...it developed a noise and grinding in the left rear that the dealer couldn't fix...replaced all sorts of parts, including power distribution differential...each time they had it they kept it for weeks waiting for parts from overseas. Was a decent vehicle when we had it. Still making noises after warrantee ran out....sold it.

    It ran well on gravel roads and in snow...ride quality was subpar, wind noise awful and the mechanical grind from the back end was maddening. Great gas mileage but didn't have enough power to get out of its own way. NO THANK YOU.....my candidate for one of the most overrated make of cars of all time.

  2. #62
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    Rick,

    Subaru quality was outstanding from the late 1970's up to the early 2000's and then it started to slip.
    The early model flat 4 engines had a cam in the block and rocker arms, they ran forever but had no power. I've seen several of those go 300K, including one used on a farm and on the highway. It just wouldn't die. That engine was like a VW flat 4 but it was water cooled and didn't need to be re-built every 75K miles.
    The old manual transmission drivetrain was essentially a front wheel drive car with a rear axle that could be engaged. Sort of the reverse layout of a part time 4WD truck where the front axle can be engaged as needed.
    The later Subaru drivetrains had a viscous coupler that drove the rear axle. (the old AMC Eagle used a similar system) It wasn't true 4WD but it was a pretty solid system. Subaru started getting really dependent on electronics later on and that may have been their downfall.

    Around 89/90 they had dual overhead cams, fuel injection, electronic ignition and those were great engines. The weak link was the timing belt but if you replaced that before it broke, that engine would also run forever.
    The quality started to slip in the mid 2000's. The electrical systems got overly complex. Engine problems started to appear (tooling wearing out at the factory??? IDK)

    The last one I owned (well the last one I paid for, the ex-wife drove it and left with it - I miss the car a little) was 2001 Outback. That was one of the best all-around cars I've ever had.
    2.5 L engine, good economy, easy to service, plenty of power. The car was rock solid reliable.


    The Forester models ALL suffer from wind noise.

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    I chose one for my daily driver/weekend mountain exploring vehicle. After my GMC Yukon was wore out at only 100k miles and needing repairs every month, I'd had enough of American garbage.

    Attachment 252950
    Yep, I agree! I have one in the garage right now: 1991 4runner SR5, 341,000 miles. Head gaskets replaced at 71,000 miles under the Toyota warranty recall, original water pump failed at 260,000 miles, gets a new timing belt every 50,000 miles, STILL has the original fuel pump, STILL has the original alternator, and will get its 3rd clutch next month. My wife and I have nice nearly new cars but this one holds special status in our garage.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    Rick,

    Subaru quality was outstanding from the late 1970's up to the early 2000's and then it started to slip.
    The early model flat 4 engines had a cam in the block and rocker arms, they ran forever but had no power. I've seen several of those go 300K, including one used on a farm and on the highway. It just wouldn't die. That engine was like a VW flat 4 but it was water cooled and didn't need to be re-built every 75K miles.
    The old manual transmission drivetrain was essentially a front wheel drive car with a rear axle that could be engaged. Sort of the reverse layout of a part time 4WD truck where the front axle can be engaged as needed.
    The later Subaru drivetrains had a viscous coupler that drove the rear axle. (the old AMC Eagle used a similar system) It wasn't true 4WD but it was a pretty solid system. Subaru started getting really dependent on electronics later on and that may have been their downfall.

    Around 89/90 they had dual overhead cams, fuel injection, electronic ignition and those were great engines. The weak link was the timing belt but if you replaced that before it broke, that engine would also run forever.
    The quality started to slip in the mid 2000's. The electrical systems got overly complex. Engine problems started to appear (tooling wearing out at the factory??? IDK)

    The last one I owned (well the last one I paid for, the ex-wife drove it and left with it - I miss the car a little) was 2001 Outback. That was one of the best all-around cars I've ever had.
    2.5 L engine, good economy, easy to service, plenty of power. The car was rock solid reliable.


    The Forester models ALL suffer from wind noise.
    there are definately some plusses and minusses with subaru's. this april i bought a 2019 WRX, and while there are a lot of little things subaru could have done better for very little added cost, there is a lot that is very good. i had a loaner for a few days early on, dont recall it was a outback or forrester, and that thing was junk as far as i was concerned. however with snow tires on it, the WRX is a beast in the snow.

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master
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    The engineering that goes into a Subaru is very good.
    The water cooled flat 4 has a low center of gravity, is very short front-back (two cylinders worth) and is one of the most compact 4 cylinder engines around. It takes all of the positive attributes of the old air cooled VW engines and eliminates the drawbacks of air cooling (mostly the inconsistent cooling and the noise). The all wheel drive with the heavy power bias to the front axle makes for a very solid driving car in the snow.

    The Forester was built on the Imperza platform and that was probably a little too much body on that short wheelbase. The smaller WRX is fun car and the bigger Outback is a fine utility wagon or all-around sedan (the sedan's are somewhat rare compared to the wagons).

    I think Subaru (which is really Fuji Heavy Industries) got a little greedy in the mid 2000's and let quality slip in the name of higher production numbers. That's just a guess on my part.

    I had a 91 Legacy wagon (pre-Outback model) and that thing was one of the best values around. It reminded me of the early 1970's Datsun 510/610/710 series. Everything you needed and nothing else. A daily driver that was good in the snow. Cheap to operate, Cheap to maintain and rock solid dependable.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Sorry to the op that this turned into a Subaru... and Ford versus Chevy post.lol

    I can remember back in 86’ when I first got my license I bought a Subaru wagon with a stick front wheel drive used for 200 bucks for a winter vehicle so I could store my 67’ mustang. I think it was an 81’. That’s back before they have the rustproofing process figured out because the bodies would rot off of them after four years. My pops sold them Back in the day. I believe their dealership started carrying them around 79’ or 80’? I always wanted a Subaru brat but could never find one for a decent price. That little wagon I bondoed up the bottom of doors because it was already rotting apart. Boy that little wagon was fun! I learn how to drive a stick from that vehicle and burnt out a clutch and had a put a new one in at The dealerships shop night where my pops works by one of the mechanics for $60 and 2 cases of beer! It had a little star in the windshield and it turned into some monster spider cracks after I went airborne a few times with it with four guys in the vehicle off roading. I tried to kill it but ended up selling it for $875 after the beating and bondo job.

    The bottom line is there are no perfect vehicles out there that do not break down. I’ve ran service departments for over 25 years and I’ve seen just about every make and model vehicle enter our shops, just some alot more than others. I blame it more on our Wisconsin weather where they salt and sand the roads causing everything rust, rot, and fall apart besides and all the potholes in our roads knocking the front end parts loose and out of whack.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 12-14-2019 at 02:22 PM.

  7. #67
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    Well, it did start as a tire question, not which car is the bestest or worstest in the worldest. From what I understand, the foam in the tires is not for punctures, but noise quieting. The car is great but I think it needs conventional tires. The dealer has been very helpful, and I'm confident they will straighten it out.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    LLoyd, we can always count on you to deliver the buy American mantra.
    Yeah but he is not wrong on the new Subaru's. The older ones would run forever and had the best AWD on the market but the newer ones not so much. The newer American vehicles have taken giant strides in quality but a reputation is hard to live down. Girlfriend in college years ago had a Legacy Wagon. It was a tank. She was a flatlander and got introduced to grading a dirt road in the spring the hard way and ended up in a ditch on the side. Got a couple of guys to push the car upright and drove it off. Great car.

    For an AWD I'm a true believer in Honda and their quality.
    Last edited by jonp; 12-14-2019 at 04:13 PM.
    I am become death. The destroyer of worlds

    We all do our duty when there is not cost to it, honor comes easier then. Sooner or later there comes a day in every man's life when it is not so easy, a day when he must choose and live with it for the rest of his days.

    The further society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it
    George Orwell

  9. #69
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    I had a 91 Legacy wagon (pre-Outback model) and that thing was one of the best values around. It reminded me of the early 1970's Datsun 510/610/710 series. Everything you needed and nothing else. A daily driver that was good in the snow. Cheap to operate, Cheap to maintain and rock solid dependable.

    Reminds me of my 1997 CRV. Not much extra but the heater works, the am/fm works and the AWD. A little loud, not the best driver by far but it won't die. I'm treating it as an experiment now to see how long it will last. I've replaced a bunch of parts like ball joints, engine mounts, tie rods etc. that didn't need changing with cheapo China Ebay parts just to see what happens. I just put a new fuel pump in it for kicks. Take out the drivers side rear seat with 3 bolts, pull the frame it sits on with 3 bolts and the unit is right there on top of the tank. 6 nuts and it pulls out. Takes 1/2hr if your fooling around in the yard. Open the hood of my 2004 F150 and it's a nightmare of wires, parts, plastic etc.
    I am become death. The destroyer of worlds

    We all do our duty when there is not cost to it, honor comes easier then. Sooner or later there comes a day in every man's life when it is not so easy, a day when he must choose and live with it for the rest of his days.

    The further society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it
    George Orwell

  10. #70
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    Watching on the reports
    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Since this thread has drifted completely off course, lets keep going.

    The problem with the argument, "American cars are better now.. IS.......I've been hearing that same argument for 40 years and it has yet to pan out.

    I'll allow that American automotive manufacturing has improved greatly, the flip side to that is it had a Long way to go and they are still outclassed in a few areas when it comes to value.
    They all look good when they're new. The real test is how it holds up over time.

    America is better at some aspects than others. For decades our strength was large cars. We couldn't build a small car to save our soul. We got a little better at that but our competitors improved at a faster rate.

    When it comes to trucks over 1/2 ton, I think America has the edge.

    Every manufacturer cuts corners somewhere to hit a price point. It just depends on what class you're in. Quality cost money.
    An early 1980's Volvo 240 was about as bland as it gets. Even a low end Chevy or Ford from the same era had better comfort features and far more performance. But the 240 was a decent car and very safe for its day. It all depends on what you want to pay for.

    There are also differences of expectations. For some people a minor mechanical failure is seen as poor quality or bad engineering. Other people see minor failures as acceptable issues that all machines will suffer and only see the major failures as signs of poor quality.
    I'll give you an example (and show a bit of age). Chrysler once had a resistor mounted on the firewall that was part of the ignition circuit. It was a simple ceramic block with a couple of wire terminals. If the resistor burned up, and they sometimes would, the engine would not run. If you knew what the problem was and had another resistor, it was a 10 second fix.
    Some people saw that failure as, "the car will not start and therefore the car is junk" and other people saw that as, "that is an expendable part and no big deal".

  12. #72
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    I remember the dodges having that resistor on the firewall. Replaced many. Especially after water gotten on them.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sw45 View Post
    I remember the dodges having that resistor on the firewall. Replaced many. Especially after water gotten on them.
    I always had a spare in the glove box.

    If you didn't know what the problem was, you would cruse the Mopar and swear to never own one again.
    If you did know the problem and had a spare resistor. You plugged it in and let hang by the wires until you got home and mounted the new one to the firewall.

  14. #74
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    Always had spares. Have helped a few that did not have any on hand. The resistors were not that much.

  15. #75
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    My worst car was a 1976 AMC hornet. It was my first car. I bought a Bicycle for 200 bucks and took it back and bought the car with it.lol Every time I went over railroad tracks or a bump in the road it would kill. The weird part is I couldn’t put it in neutral and restart it on a roll it had to be at a complete stop and put back in park to start. Blue with a white top.

    ...It didn’t have any tire problems though


    Wait, I take that back! A 95’ eagle talon TSI FWD. I bought the car and the transmission cracked all the way around the bell housing within a month and a half, The turbo blew out on it, and when I went to sell it (with an extended warranty I bought to cover the turbo)the power moonroof fell out in the guys lap that bought it a week later and thought I did it. The good part is the $1200 extended warranty I bought covered 100% of it with a zero dollar deductible. ***!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    Rick,

    Subaru quality was outstanding from the late 1970's up to the early 2000's and then it started to slip.
    The early model flat 4 engines had a cam in the block and rocker arms, they ran forever but had no power. I've seen several of those go 300K, including one used on a farm and on the highway. It just wouldn't die. That engine was like a VW flat 4 but it was water cooled and didn't need to be re-built every 75K miles.
    The old manual transmission drivetrain was essentially a front wheel drive car with a rear axle that could be engaged. Sort of the reverse layout of a part time 4WD truck where the front axle can be engaged as needed.
    The later Subaru drivetrains had a viscous coupler that drove the rear axle. (the old AMC Eagle used a similar system) It wasn't true 4WD but it was a pretty solid system. Subaru started getting really dependent on electronics later on and that may have been their downfall.

    Around 89/90 they had dual overhead cams, fuel injection, electronic ignition and those were great engines. The weak link was the timing belt but if you replaced that before it broke, that engine would also run forever.
    The quality started to slip in the mid 2000's. The electrical systems got overly complex. Engine problems started to appear (tooling wearing out at the factory??? IDK)

    The last one I owned (well the last one I paid for, the ex-wife drove it and left with it - I miss the car a little) was 2001 Outback. That was one of the best all-around cars I've ever had.
    2.5 L engine, good economy, easy to service, plenty of power. The car was rock solid reliable.


    The Forester models ALL suffer from wind noise.
    Yup except for massive rust magnet...they were excellent cars in that era. Honda's were better. I got a Honda Civic LX in 1999. It has been my only car for over 20 years. 300k mi I have done all my own work on it. People still marvel. Once you are inside it still seems like a brand new car.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I have to say the Subarus are very rare to see for repairs in the local shops I’ve worked in. If they did come in it was for brakes and oil changes. I always wondered if they didn’t break or if most people were just loyal and took them to the local Subaru dealership for repairs.

  18. #78
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    they all make turds. some make more than others, but they all make 'em.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    Death wobble is something completely different. It's related to a solid axle moving side to side in relation to the steering gear.
    It's a Jeep Thing, you wouldn't understand... LOL!
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    LLoyd, we can always count on you to deliver the buy American mantra.
    Well, somebody has to buy the Hi-Points and the GMs...

    Some people are just incapable of discerning quality. It's like they can pick up and shoot a $5,000 Les Baer and then pick up and shoot a RIA 1911 and declare they see no difference in the quality or feel of either firearm.

    There is no arguing with those type of people; they simply will never get it.

    A co-worker of mine bought a new F-150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost V6 in the Lariat trim. $50k pickup and every option. I had just bought my $36k Toyota. I rode in his pickup when we went out to lunch and was amazed at the squeaks and rattles already present in a babied Yuppie-mobile that had never been on gravel.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

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