Old jeep advice?

[BD]

When I was in high school in PA in the early 1970s a good friend had an MB that we had a lot of fun in. When my daughter was in high school in Maine at the turn of this century, a good friend of her's had a CJ2a that they had a lot of fun in. I have grandkids now, I live in Northern Maine, and I think they should have a lot of fun in an old jeep as well. I don't like modern four wheelers or side by sides at all. I've used them a fair bit at work, and other than the ability to put tracks on, I think they are not what I want. Too expensive, Too Loud, Too fast, and Too fragile. The selection of old jeeps is limited in Maine, and 60" in width is a real factor, (ATV laws and barriers). I am currently looking at two possibilities: One is a 1948 CJ2a with a 231 odd fire that is sound steel, but rough assembly. A real back yard mechanic rig. It has an after market quite thick CJ3a tub, no rust through, and a good frame, T-86 tranny rebuilt with T90 gears and a twin sided PTO and a Ramsey front PTO winch, good seats, but lacks a windshield and any sort of interior refinement, (no shift boots, no shifter knobs, no working gauges). Starts and runs, Original brakes and steering gear, Winch not currently working, $3,500 . The other is a 1949 with a 153 chevy nova 4 cylinder, custom top , new paint, OD, everything works, (almost too fancy for me, has a radio?) for $8,500. I don't know what the tranny is, and I see no sign of a PTO. Any advice? Any advice on the CJ forum that is the equivalent of CastBoolits? My goal is a street legal jeep that will do at least 55 and be safe to drive, while still being configured for off road. 20 years ago 45 mph was enough to get the 15 miles to any nearby trailhead. These days twenty folks would be passing you,( half out of control), if you were doing 45 for more than a mile.

[Brokenbear]

Well ...my last build was a 54 wagon ...frame up and made a good profit and had a good time "scrounging" for things ...I lean to original and there re sources out there to keep the drive train near original and certainly tubs,fenders floors etc ..but I do have to say this ...I urge you to find one of the early CJ's (don't recall the first model years) but go for one where the axles are on TOP of the springs ..the lowered body and resulting lower center of gravity is/was a life saving move.. all young people need every edge they can get as experience in driving and learning/managing the dynamics of off roading is just not available like we learned on our farms and ranches
So I'm for non hybrid jeeps ..KISS ..keep'em original ..sure makes keeping them on the road easier

Bear

[historicfirearms]

My old cj2a would do 50mph flat out. That was with the original L head engine. One day while going downhill I got her up to 54mph and blew the engine. Parts are probably getting hard to find for these old jeeps. Twenty years ago when I had mine parts were rare. Then scrap metal prices went up and all the junk cars went to the crusher. Transmissions, transfer cases, closed nuckle front ends, all gotta be nearly non existent now.
I loved my flat fender so I hate to say this. I would look for a little bit newer CJ5 if it were me. They will also be easier to drive 55.

[sigep1764]

49, the whole way. You said grandkids. They are gonna need gauges and that Chevy 4 cylinder will run forever with enough power to get them out of trouble. And its sorted. Its turnkey, just maintain it. Worth the extra 5k

[redneck1]

Being an odd fire it's more likely to be a 225 duantless then a 231 Buick . But that doesn't mean it isn't . You'd have to check the serial numbers .
Regardless of that , the little odd fire v6 engines are pretty solid .
They make plenty of power in stock form . And if that isn't enough for your tastes they are very easy to get a lot more out of .
Given a choice In a jeep I'd take the v6 over a 4 , inline six or a 304 v8 any day of the week .

Edit ..as a side note , if your looking to possibly modernize a jeep with fuel injection in the future .
Odd fire engines aren't the easiest way to go , an even fire engine will be easier to do and a fair bit cheaper

[Lloyd Smale]

buick made both an even fire and odd fire 231 (3.8) v6.

[truckjohn]

Yes they are super fun but they are scarce now. Prices are going up and parts are scarce.

Have you considered a side by side utility 4-wheeler by Honda/Polaris/Kawasaki? Integral roll cages. Small light engines. Parts and service availability. I bet you could get the dealer to put a limiter on it so the kids could not run 80mph in one...

[Todd N.]

What is your ability to do reconditioning work on one of these? That COULD dictate your choice. Having the tools, knowledge, and garage space to work on a "project" will open up more options.

My thoughts on the 2 choices you presented:

The '48 is a "project" (beater) through and through. No matter who you are or what your resources, it will likely be a year or more before you can drive that thing down the street to check the brakes. Are the motor mounts welded correctly? Is the motor installed square to the frame and with the correct offset? What's going on with the clutch linkage? Is it non-existent, home fabbed, or aftermarket hydraulic? The trans "upgraded gear parts" is as meaningful as saying, " I use .30-'06 bullets in my .308" - it's just a case of interchangeable parts that truly has no merit. The PTO winch has very little use any more beyond collectors and restorers- they don't allow you to drive out of a "stuck" like an electric winch can do for you. Your PTO port is better served being stuffed with a Warn or Husky Overdrive from Herm The Overdrive Guy. Original brakes and Ross steering? For ease of driving and the safety of your precious grandkids, please update those outdated, marginal-at-best systems. Aftermarket jeep bodies are iffy. I have an Omix-Ada body from 1997 that sits behind my garage. It is not square, holes are wrong, dimensions are wrong, some original parts won't bolt up no matter what you do. It is my $3500 mistake.
I could go on but you get the picture. Beyond the purchase, you will likely invest $3-5,000 getting this Flatfender fully operational and safe to drive. And like I said, you will spend a year or more doing it. More like 2 years.

The '49 sounds turn-key. I personally am not a fan of the Chevy 4 cylinder motor for a jeep- lack of appreciable torque, powerband is narrow- but they ARE fuel efficient. You probably don't see a PTO because the OD is using that port on the transfer case. Out here in the West, that Jeep is WAY overpriced at $8500. I don't know the jeep market in your area.

Alternate ideas would be to find one on ebay and have it shipped, or have friends or relatives in other parts of the country find on for you that is a better buy and have it shipped. Either way you will get more jeep for less than $8500. Here's some examples...

https://portland.craigslist.org/yam/...017974710.html

https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/c...024863899.html

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...018314872.html

[BD]

I looked at the '49 today. It looks good on top, and has a very nice custom top, overdrive, seatbelts, gages, glass, turn signals and Saginaw steering. Downside is that it looks worse than the '48 underneath. Other than the 153 and steering, it is the original tub, drive train, brakes and suspension, pretty much untouched. They did not pull the tub to paint it and the tub hat channels are mostly gone with the wood fillers falling out. Shifted hard and I couldn't get the transfer case to go into low. With the lever in low there was nothing there but a whirring sound. I'm going to try and look closer at the '48 later this week. It looks like in either case I'd be pulling the tub to go through the undercarriage and paint.
Although it's over 40 years ago now, I pretty much grew up in a body shop, working there summers and weekends from age 13 to 21. I can handle the work, and I can fab most things. It's more a case of value for the dollar going in.

[Petrol & Powder]

Neither one of those sounds real appealing to me.

I would keep looking.

[redneck1]

I'll toss out some advice .

I'm going to assume from the price range you've been looking at that the budget isn't unlimited nor is it minimal .

So you want a jeep and you mention grandchildren, why not forget about actual value . This is something you want , not need .
Concentrate on getting the jeep you want in the condition that suits you . spend what your comfortable with and dont worry about anything else . If you spend a few bucks more or less then you should have who cares .
I don't know anyone who is getting any younger and letting money get in the way of some enjoyment just doesn't make much sense

[lefty o]

if its for you, buy whatever tickles your fancy, but as you allude it would be more for the grandkids, buy the newer option. yes the new toys may be faster, but they are also way safer.

[Ickisrulz]

The Mahindra Roxor looks pretty cool to me.

[BD]

So the guy with the '49 came down to 4,000. I'm going for it tomorrow. I'll post some pics when I get it home.

[BD]

The Roxor is too wide and too long IMO. It's the compact size and wheelbase of the 2a's and 3a's that I like. Otherwise I'd go for the basic creature comforts of CJ5

[skeettx]

Good luck, looking forward to the pictures

This is what you got?
The other is a 1949 with a 153 chevy nova 4 cylinder, custom top , new paint, OD, everything works, (almost too fancy for me, has a radio?). I don't know what the tranny is, and I see no sign of a PTO.

[Mal Paso]

The original jeep was tested, in part, right here in Big Sur. A local boy, Hank Adams, volunteered that Big Sur had all the rough terrain you could want. Close to Fort Ord was likely also a factor. There was a newspaper article shortly after Hank passed with the details. Lost the clipping to a wild fire but this thread jogged my memory.

[BD]

Yes, I'm buying the shiny one. My wife and daughter "firmed up" that decision based on the roof, heat, turn signals and "drive it now" factor. I did a little reading and I'm thinking the problem I thought was with the transfer case was probably operator error. Apparently the fork in the CJ2a won't let you go into low on the transfer case unless you are in four wheel drive. I had been trying to see how low first gear was in low range direct drive at the time, and I don't know that I had the front axle "in". I don't remember this issue on the MB from 40 years ago. Could be different in the MB, or could be my memory. The seller had never driven it in any range other than high on the transfer case and 1.25 on the OD. I'll check that out tomorrow, but at that price I could afford a transfer case rebuild, (and maybe a 4 speed as well). At this point I'm not thrilled about the 153, but on the plus side it will give me more range on the stock gas tank, and it can be made much much quieter than the Odd fire. The saginaw steering is a plus. The brakes may need attention, They are the stock 9" drums and I don't know that the 153 makes enough vacuum for a simple booster. Anyone know offhand what rims would fit this? It has the original rims and NDT's which I remember as not being very good on plowed snowy roads, (or even wet pavement). I'd like to put a set of modern studded snows on for winter use.

[enfield]

I bought 4 Willyses ( plural ?) for $2500 in early 2018 that were rotting in someones back yard for the last 25 years. I could salvage one frame ( still needed repairs and straightening ) 2 axles that had to be completely rebuilt, 1 engine also bored , pistons bearings etc. had one grille, one hood, 1 windshield frame. I built a complete tub ( it actually turned out pretty good I must say ) I had it driving down the road 13 months after purchase by working almost every night and every weekend on it. the transmission is apart now to overhaul and repair 2nd gear popout ( common T90 ). without labour allowance my parts alone added up to a lot more than I thought I would ever spend on a jeep.

[Todd N.]

BD,

Congrats on the Flattie! Here's a couple FYI's for you;

There is an interlock poppet in the transfer case shifter mechanism. Unless you remove that poppet, you can only get into low range if you are in 4WD. It;s REALLY harsh on the drivelines so people rarely do it unless they are running a competition grade crawler. If you are buying a jeep with a Chevy 4-banger, that is not your goal.
Speaking of the little 153, it actually will perform less efficiently than a V6. Remember, it's only about 80 HP. I run a Dauntless in my '65 CJ. With 33" tires, cast iron exhaust manifolds and single exhaust I average 16-17 mpg. AND I can run freeway speed- your 153 will be hard pressed to do that. We have 2 Flatfenders in my club with "modern" 4-bangers, a 2.3L Pinto motor and a 151 c.i. Iron Duke Pontiac. Neither one comes close to the V6 guys for fuel economy. It's the whole power-to-weight ratio thing...
Vacuum boost for your brakes is not the direction to go. Your 9" brakes will NEVER perform adequately no matter what you do to them. Put a slightly heavier tire on there, 4 people in the jeep and go 45 miles per hour. Your 9" brakes will get you stopped in a week or so. Get it up to 55mph like you said in your opening post? Your brakes will flat out scare you. The only SAFE answer is to get more braking not more pressure. 11 inch drum brakes used to be the hot setup but disc brake conversions are now so cheap and so much better than drum brakes that it's silly not to use them. Here are two vendors to give you a idea, but there are others who make them also:
http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/brake...isc-brake-kits

https://brennans-garage.com/products...acket-two-pair

With your fabrication skills, the smart solution is to convert to under-dash hanging clutch and brake pedals. This will give you better ergonomics of the pedals, better pedal effort ratios for more comfort and ease of driving (remember the part about getting the grandkids in the Jeep???), and give you the ability to install a modern dual chamber master cylinder for safety and even more increased braking efficiency. All of these upgrades as a package will give you brakes that rival a new-ish car and you don't have to add a booster. Change out your front axle to a Narrow Track Dana 30 and you will get better steering, disk brakes, open knuckles, and lower maintenance requirements.

If it was just you looking for a rig to get him around on the ranch in winter, this thread wouldn't have meant a thing to me. Mention your kids and grandkids and it's a different story! My daughter was driving Moab in my 2A when she was 13. She now has a High Hood CJ-3B of her own. As a single mother, she has great fun running around with her little boy, and proudly telling people,"That's MY Jeep!"
I hope your project turns out to be everything you hope for!