Lee PrecisionInline FabricationRepackboxADvertise here
RotoMetals2Titan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters SupplyWideners

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 82

Thread: Open Theism

  1. #41
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,218
    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,..." Ephesians 1:3-5 (E.S.V.)

    So much for Open Theism.

    Sorry, it is late, and my tolerance for bad theology is slim.

    exile
    I do not understand how that conflicts with Open Theism.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
    exile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,050
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I do not understand how that conflicts with Open Theism.
    Your original post seems to indicate that those who believe in open theism feel that God's knowledge of all things is somehow limited, weak and ineffectual.

    I felt (and still feel) that those verses disprove that thesis rather firmly.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
    exile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,050
    "And the men marveled, saying, 'What sort of man is this, that even winds and sea obey him?'" Matthew 8:27 (E.S.V.)
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Did God foresee that he would send the great flood? Doesn't God foresee many possible futures that God could create. Don't you believe that God answers prayers and acts upon the world in other ways.

    Tim
    hey tim, why do you suppose God told noah to build the ark about 120 years before the great flood ? after all it did take him 120 years to complete the ark. so why would God have asked him to do that if He didn't know ahead of time and besides all that it never rained on the earth until then. all the people alive then must have thought he was crazy "what's a boat for?'. BUT ON THAT DAY THEY SOON FOUND OUT.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,234
    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    hey tim, why do you suppose God told noah to build the ark about 120 years before the great flood ? after all it did take him 120 years to complete the ark. so why would God have asked him to do that if He didn't know ahead of time and besides all that it never rained on the earth until then. all the people alive then must have thought he was crazy "what's a boat for?'. BUT ON THAT DAY THEY SOON FOUND OUT.
    There was no Ark. The story is fiction.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #46
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,554
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    There was no Ark. The story is fiction.

    Tim
    Cultures all over the world have flood stories that are similar to the Bible's account.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

    Hickory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Great Black Swamp of Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    4,392
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Tim, you're trying and that's good. But the hairs of our heads are numbered by God and no sparrow falls without his knowledge. Meaning NOTHING that happens anywhere at all escapes his notice.

    In our limited ability to grasp the magnitude of God, he has chosen to use words we can understand. His Bible uses words and expressions to show us he understands where we are and how we think. Thus we see that Jesus is "a solid rock, the rock of ages, a cornerstone, a lamb, a lion, the lily of the valley, living water", etc. None are literal expressions but all are true in the sense the writer intended but it's definitely not literal. That truth includes your reference to the expression of God's "regret".

    It may shock some people but Jesus and biblical characters didn't speak in 1611 King James English. A (smart) 5th grade kid can read scripture and see what it says in English but no such kid can grasp much of what it means.

    So, don't get too tied up in precisely what is written in every verse of scripture. Instead, put it all together and pray for spiritual guidance. Seek to understand what the words mean, i.e., what the real message is. That's not always child-like easy but stick with the point of the Biblical message as best you can. Avoid distracting and pointless red herrings and you'll do okay.
    Bingo!
    I couldn't have said it better.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    5,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Cultures all over the world have flood stories that are similar to the Bible's account.
    They also have stories of werewolves and vampires. Does that make them true also? Ever considered the logic and ramifications of the said boat? Two of every species? There simply wouldn't be enough room on the Ark for two of every species. It makes a feel good bed time story but nothing else.

  9. #49
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    5,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Cultures all over the world have flood stories that are similar to the Bible's account.
    Its easy to understand. The earth changed pole positions which caused a flood. The earth is due in the future to do the exact same thing. North has already changed by a few degrees thus we are starting the slow process once again. Another one of God's floods as depicted by a bunch of uneducated people? The earth's flat too as thought of hundreds of years ago. Its amazing what people come up with when logic is thrown out the window.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,218
    IMHO, it is those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible that cause their own problems. If the Bible is "perfect", then it is easy...very easy...to find those "red herrings" and justify the Word is not true/complete or open to "interpertation". Many Evangelicals deal with that by being closed minded, and it is very common for most of them to dismiss science and view science as "the enemy".

    My Pastor believes the universe is 6-8000 years old. He bases this on his interpreation of the Bible...it is inerrant. He is not a fool. He choses to ignore science as it does not fit his views. Yet, because of his beliefs, he will come accross as a fool; and will be ignored by those who do not know him. Sad because he has a lot to offer in his teachings.

    Look at the Bible in its entirety.

    For those of you who are atheists and agnostics, do not let rabid and ignorant bible thumpers be the reason you do not accept God. They are NOT perfect in their understanding of scripture even though some think they are.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    There was no Ark. The story is fiction.

    Tim
    fiction huh? so where did you get all your perfect truthful information from. tell me tim, what are you going to do when the lord comes for his people and you are left behind? you seem to know so much about god , what you gonna go to then?
    Last edited by a danl; 03-05-2020 at 07:09 PM.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,554
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    They also have stories of werewolves and vampires. Does that make them true also? Ever considered the logic and ramifications of the said boat? Two of every species? There simply wouldn't be enough room on the Ark for two of every species. It makes a feel good bed time story but nothing else.
    Much can be cleared up if we realize the flood might have been localized--where all the people were at that time. This would make the logistics much easier for Noah and his family.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,554
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Its easy to understand. The earth changed pole positions which caused a flood. The earth is due in the future to do the exact same thing. North has already changed by a few degrees thus we are starting the slow process once again. Another one of God's floods as depicted by a bunch of uneducated people? The earth's flat too as thought of hundreds of years ago. Its amazing what people come up with when logic is thrown out the window.
    I don't know about your explanation, but I would say a common source for the flood story (i.e., it really happened) would account for different cultures having similar stories.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,554
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    IMHO, it is those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible that cause their own problems. If the Bible is "perfect", then it is easy...very easy...to find those "red herrings" and justify the Word is not true/complete or open to "interpertation". Many Evangelicals deal with that by being closed minded, and it is very common for most of them to dismiss science and view science as "the enemy".

    My Pastor believes the universe is 6-8000 years old. He bases this on his interpreation of the Bible...it is inerrant. He is not a fool. He choses to ignore science as it does not fit his views. Yet, because of his beliefs, he will come accross as a fool; and will be ignored by those who do not know him. Sad because he has a lot to offer in his teachings.

    Look at the Bible in its entirety.

    For those of you who are atheists and agnostics, do not let rabid and ignorant bible thumpers be the reason you do not accept God. They are NOT perfect in their understanding of scripture even though some think they are.
    I'll just point out that the Bible doesn't claim the earth is 8,000 years old. You have gotta know what is in the Bible and also what it doesn't say.

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    130
    there is a verse in the NT that says the world was created "as of old" . when trying to figure the age of the world from the beginning a bible teacher will teach what he/she believes meaning they go by names recorded / age of same gereration after gereration , etc. and compile it to about the figure 6 to 8 thousand years. the bible itself does not give an age because to me it's a question that cannot be answered , so those things i leave to the Lord. remember this "darwin's evolution" has not been proved it is only a theory .

  16. #56
    Boolit Buddy Snow ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    IMHO The forum should have been named "Deep Christian Theology"
    Thatís the problem, no one ever wants to have a discussion. You should call it the Theological Echo Chamber.
    Do the best you can, with what you've got, where you're at. -Theodore Roosevelt

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Cultures all over the world have flood stories that are similar to the Bible's account.
    I did not say there was no flood, I said there was no Ark. The fact that Cultures all over the world have flood stories put lie to the Biblical account of the flood killed everyone but Noah's family. Anyway the idea that the flood would have wiped out the people who lived high in the Andes and Himalayas is just preposterous as is the idea that the Southeast Asians were descended from Noah.

    Even if Noah built an ark 10,000 years before the oldest known ship that was still 30,000 years after East Asians diverged from Caucasians.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  18. #58
    Theism in a nutshell demotes God to a pagan demi god, it's an empowerment scam for people with serious daddy issues who border on atheism but want the false social "one up" of believing in something as opposed to their peers who believe in nothing and since theism is just a generic version of hindiusm basically it gives a place for intellectual fence sitters to virtue signal,entertain moral relativism and mock God from without adhering to anything. it's religion for hipsters, leftwingers, liberals & attracts people who are rebellious and ego driven who usually don't want to be accountable & are pissed off at the only real God. My generation watched that idiotic community implode along with Atheist, feminists & Newage cults that have a lot of cross over. hahaha ~ from a Far Right Christian

  19. #59
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,533
    Dverna, I sincerely don't mean to put you or your rasoning down, but to me, this is the kind of question that's akin to "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin." The only real answer to it is "We don't know." We are often too reluctant to say "I don't know," and merely leave such questions and answers to God or Christ, and focus our minds and hearts on questions we CAN find real answers to. And too, often these types of questions only serve to instigate argument and dissensions that serve nobody but the Evil One.

    Honestly, I applaud your sincere efforts to know the Lord, but some avenues are simply slums that lead to nowhere, and I think this kind of question is one of those. Keep searching and learning. You're headed to a wonderful and soul satisfying place.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,218
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    I'll just point out that the Bible doesn't claim the earth is 8,000 years old. You have gotta know what is in the Bible and also what it doesn't say.
    That is the problem. My pastor believes in the New Earth view because he believes the universe was created in six 24 hr days and the chronological history of the descendants of Adam and Eve. He is as certain of that as I am that man and dinosaurs did not coexist.

    This makes me prone to question his conclusion on other things when I believe he is wrong on something so simple. I doubt I am alone in these feelings. By insisting the Bible is inerrant and that Genesis takes place over six 24hr days...my pastor has no wiggle room. If he could accept that God was not constrained to our definition of a day, it would open his now firmly closed mind.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check