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Thread: What Snubnose?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
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    What Snubnose?

    I've suddenly gotten the itch for a short barrel revolver. The title says it should be 2" barrel. I don't mind a used gun since it won't normally be a carry weapon although you never know. I've got several revolvers, mostly 4" and longer and mostly single action. I do have a very few 4" & 6" barrel double action revolvers but have always had in the back of my mind that a snubnose would be cool.

    I've looked at S&W 638 and 642. The site I looked at normally has used firearms and I assume these are too. Probably LE trade-ins but since it is not specified, maybe not.

    Any insights would be appreciated.
    John
    W.TN

  2. #2
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    LE trade ins are fine.
    In the old days I bought 6 of S&W, I think model 36's from a Michigan Police Dept..
    These were 2" 5 shot, Alum. frame, but Stainless Steel cylinders.

    They had holster wear, but 3 of them hadn't been fired and still had the 3 factory proof house flashes on the cylinder faces.
    The others had been fired, but only a few times.

    The cost was less than half of new ones.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Smith 642.....

    I love mine.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    ive handled 638 and 642, aluminum frame snubs kick pretty good incase you haven't shot one before. I have a model 60 357 now 2 1/8" I mostly shoot 38s, it feels higher quality, but its higher priced. and its stainless which makes it funner to shoot than light ones. but it seems smith charges more for small guns that aren't light weight so its kinda divided.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy 2A-Jay's Avatar
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    I carry a Charter Arms Under Cover .38spl blued 5 round wood grip. it has been a good snub nose for me.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Either 638 or 642 would be a fine choice but carry comfort is a priority over shootability. 148 cast wadcutter at 660 fps for more pleasant practice.

    Top end standard pressure handloads drive a 158 cast bullet at around 810 fps. Last lot I shot of 158 LSWCHP +P got around 830 fps in factory Winchester brand. Top end Plus P handloads with cast 158 add about 50 fps to that.

    When an aluminum snubby launches a 158 at 800 plus fps recoil does get a bit bouncy.

    Experiment with different loads to find what is tolerable. Light bullets that expand widely and penetrate poorly leave me cold. If controllability and decent performance is needed there is much to be said for a wadcutter of the cast or factory swaged variety at 650-780 fps. Pick the speed you can manage and go with that if you want simple and reliable.

    A lot of reading of The Gelatin Diaries may be of some assistance in picking a factory load. If you want to keep it simple for practice or other uses see the preceding paragraph.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    And if you are never going to carry it consider an all steel gun. I do carry one so the aluminum variant is something I live with but it is my “hot weather” and “sweaty yard work” gun and is my gun I carry when I don’t feel like decking myself out with a multi shot 40 and extra magazines.

    Pool parties, small events with friends, bass and fly fishing and suchlike. I don’t feels like being Uber Tactical all the time, just as occasionally it is more fun to drive a car than a three quarter ton truck.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I've a S&W model 36 steel one that hasn't given me a bit of trouble in the 25 years I've used it.Standard and plus +p no problems. Frank

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I'd pass on the S&W J-frames..............I own three of them. IMO, the Ruger LCR is the way to go. Better sights and DAO trigger pull, right out of the box.

    Winelover

  10. #10
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    I have owned a few over the years.
    36 (all steel 38) - exposed hammer
    640 (all stainless 357 mag) - nice piece, no exposed hammer, but heavy
    638 (alloy - 38 sp + rated) - shrouded hammer - very light - recoil with +P is sharp
    642 (alloy frame, ss barrel and cyl) - 38 sp + rated) - no exposed hammer, very light - recoil with +p is better then the 638)

    I don't own the 638 or 36 but I own the other two still.
    My carry when its not the glock 17m is the 642.
    I don't know its there.
    If your not gonna carry it then my suggestion is either the model 36 or the 640.
    You will never have any issues. If you get the 36 and you want a pocket piece then bob the hammer.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Snub nose revolvers

    I have a few S&W snub nose revolvers, the one I carry and shot the most is a S&W 640 I bought used, I carry it in a Milt Sparks POC holster . I tried to post a picture but This site won`t let me . I don`t feel under guned . with 5 rounds of Rem HTP ammo.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Smith and Wesson 642 airweight in a pocket holster, in my pocket. It is my primary carry gun. I also have a Ruger SP101. It also fits quite nicely in my pocket, but that Ruger is HEAVY. Target shooting with a snubby can be a bit frustrating. I do it just enough to remain familiar with the gun.

  13. #13
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    I've carried a S&W 340PD for over 10 years.

    A little pricy up front, but the Scandium and Titanium never rusts and the insanely light weight ensures I carry it everywhere, all the time. Added a "Clipdraw" attachment so I can just tuck it in my gym shorts when puttering around.

    Ive tried the micro-compact 9mms, but I just dont like them. That is until I picked up a Bond Arms Bullpup9...
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  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have 2 snubbies at the moment. A smith 340 scandium titanium air light in 357 mag, and a 36 round butt in 38 spl air weight. Herse the basic rundown on them The 340 is light and carries great due to the light weight and small size but do to the light weight and small size recoil is viscous with light wadcutter loads. The revolver wears a set of hip grips making it very easy to carry. The 36 weights a few ounces more and same size package it is much easier to shoot and not much more to carry. Its a nice handy firearm. At one time I also owned a 36 square but all steel snubbie this pistol was heavier but was a dream to shoot do to the added weight Even the heavier 38 defense loads were controllable.

    With these small revolvers sight alignment becomes more critical as does trigger pull and release. A nice trade off might be a j frame 38 or 357 with a 3" barrel if smith still makes them a little more weight longer sight radius with not a lot of gain is size.

    While I truly like the colts snubs they are bigger in thickness and heavier. They are 6 shot though. Another consideration is these are getting older and may have some issues.

    While these aren't inaccurate they are harder to shoot accurately do to light weight small size and short sight radius. Learning to shoot a snub makes you much better with the bigger long barreled revolvers. The heavier trigger pulls they normally have don't help a lot either. Most snubs trigger pulls are double the guns actual weight. LOL.

  15. #15
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    I have been dedicated to the snubnose platform for decades.

    They require training but the snubnose is an excellent self defense tool.

    I will not tolerate a hammer spur on a snubnose carried for self defense. The enclosed hammer DAO models and the bobbed hammer versions are the only types I will carry.

    The lightweight S&W DAO J-frames such as the 442 are excellent guns for concealed carry. If you prefer a steel frame, the 640 is an all stainless version but the current 640 models have a 2 1/8" barrel as opposed to the 1 7/8" barrel of the early 1990's model 640. That may not sound like much but it is a factor when pocket carry will be the mode of carry. If you can find an early 1990's model 640 in good condition for under $400 - BUY IT!
    One of the best DAO J-frames I ever shot was an old model 40. I attempted to buy that gun on the spot but my friend would not let it go despite the large cash offer.
    I've shot the Bodyguard models that have the shrouded hammer and I just don't see the attraction. I will NEVER need to shoot a snubnose in single action. The inclusion of a hammer, even a shrouded hammer, is really unnecessary. However, if it came down to a Shrouded hammer verses an exposed hammer; I would pick the shrouded hammer.


    The Ruger SP101 is a strong gun and they shoot very well, but they are larger and noticeably heavier than the J-frames. The SP101 better suited for holster carry than pocket carry. The SP101 with a bobbed hammer will fit in a pocket but it's on the heavy side. The factory grips on a SP101 are surprisingly universal. I've seen more than one SP101 owner install aftermarket grips only to put the factory grips back on the gun later. That Ruger grip doesn't look like much but it fits a lot of different people.

    Stepping up to the K-frames and older Colts, we have the 2" barrel, fixed sight S&W models 10 and 64 (blued and stainless respectively) These are great guns but are not pocket guns. The old Colt D-frames (Detective Special, Cobra, Agent) are slightly smaller and with a bobbed hammer, right on the edge of what qualifies as a pocket gun in my book. They do give you a six round cylinder. The alloy framed Cobra and Agent with a bobbed hammer would be better for pocket carry than the steel Detective Special. The down side is the Colts are just about exclusively in the collector's market these days and are no longer affordable.

    The new Ruger LCR revolvers are nice guns. I've shot a few and fixed some minor problems for friends. They seem to be decent guns.

    The old Taurus Model 85 is the one Taurus model they seem to have built right. I've seen some of those guns soldier on for years.

    The quality of the Charter Arms Undercover is highly dependent on when it was made. That company has gone through several phases and their quality fluctuated.

    GRIPS: Snubnose revolvers are very concealable but the price you pay for that is small grips. If you put large grips on the gun, it is easier to handle and shoot but you lose the advantage of that small size. When large grips are installed on a J-frame, you turn it into a gun the size of a K-frame with a 5 round cylinder. At that point, you might as well carry a 2" K-frame.
    Some grips are better than others and will maintain the small size of the gun while allowing better control. Most of the new S&W J-frames come with a "Boot Grip" style grip which is about the best compromise between small size and good handling. Another option with the magna grips on a J-frame is to add a Tyler T-grip adaptor. That will improve the grip without making the overall size of the gun larger.

    Alloy verses Steel frames: For guns that are carried everyday, the lightweight alloy frames are welcomed. The heavier steel framed models are slightly more pleasant to practice with but the price you pay everyday is weight. Concealed carry guns take a LOT of abuse. If you go with a steel frame, I would strongly recommend stainless. And by the way, alloy frames are stronger than often perceived. I've been shooting the same S&W model 442 for over 20 years. I had to replace the hand when it got out of time but it's still going strong. The cylinder end shake is just now becoming slightly apparent and I'll probably need to stretch the crane at some point in the future. That gun has seen thousands of rounds.

    Magnums : I have shot snubnose revolvers with magnum loads and I came to the conclusion that I did not want to train with magnum loads. Because training is critical with a snubnose revolver, I decided the short barreled magnum revolvers were not for me. YMMV.

    Good Luck !

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    S&W 637 for me the one i have has a bobbed hammer
    kids that hunt and fish dont mug old ladies

  17. #17
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Some size comparisons

    Upper left - S&W model 442
    Upper right - Ruger SPNY (SP101 variant)
    Lower left - Colt Detective Special
    Lower Right S&W Model 12 with round butt

    The alloy S&W J-frame 442 is the smallest & lightest
    The Ruger and Colt are almost equal in size & weight
    The S&W model 12 is a lightweight K-frame that weighs less than the Ruger or Colt but it's slightly larger in size.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Pocket/Ankle carry: S&W 642 since the 90's, 90% of the time
    Holster snubby: S&W M10, 12, 15 2", easily conceals OWB under a guayabera shirt even in hot weather

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by photomicftn View Post
    Pocket/Ankle carry: S&W 642 since the 90's, 90% of the time
    Holster snubby: S&W M10, 12, 15 2", easily conceals OWB under a guayabera shirt even in hot weather
    Good combo

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The J-frames are difficult to shoot well and with the large 0.008"+ cylinder gaps they are commonly shipping them with now and only a 1-7/8" barrel you lose 30-40 fps over a K-frame having a true 2-inch barrel and a snug cylinder gap of 0.005-0.006". I prefer a K-frame snub which gives you something to hang onto and which carries 6 shots.

    I have both a steel-frame Model 10-5 and an alloy frame Model 12-2.

    Attachment 252607Attachment 252608

    .38 Special Snubby Velocity Tests, November 19, 2019, 50 degs. F.

    Firearm:______________S&W Mod37_____S&W Mod12
    Barrel length___________ 1-7/8"____________2"
    Cyl. Gap_______________ 0.008__________0.006

    Ammunition:
    Ball M41 130FMJ RA66____732 fps, 23 Sd__742 fps, 30 sd_Vietnam-era military for Airweight revolver
    Ball M41 130FMJ WCC68__721 fps, 20 Sd__766 fps, 32 Sd_Vietnam-era military for Airweight revolver
    Win. 130FN"Service Grade" 739 fps, 22 Sd__771 fps, 5 Sd_Current production "range" ammo
    Avg. of 130-gr. FMJ ammo_731 fps________760 fps

    Speer 135GHHP 4.1B'eye__710 fps, 19 Sd__772 fps, 18 Sd_Good exp. from Mod. 12, but not from Mod. 37. Needs >750 fps to open up

    WRA 148 HBWC_________638 fps, 14 Sd__687 fps, 9 Sd_Vietnam-era training ammo, factory target wadcutter
    R-P 148 HBWC 3.2 B'eye__ 770 fps, 9 Sd__797 fps, 17 Sd_"Full Charge" wadcutter handload.

    Rem-UMC 158"Pol.Service"_697 fps, 14 Sd_733 fps, 11 Sd_WW2-era police service
    WRA 158 LRN "Lubaloy"___699 fps, 19 Sd_720 fps, 14 Sd_WW2-era police service
    WRA "cut-off"_ FN"_______729 fps, 19 Sd_757 fps, 12 Sd_Nose cut off to 1.40" ctg. OAL with .25" meplat
    RWS 158 FMJFN__________659 fps, 33 Sd_694 fps, 20 Sd_Current production "range" ammo
    Avg. of 158-grain ammos__696 fps_______726 fps

    Charge establishment with Magtech 158-grain LRN to approximate old factory lead service for range practice
    4 grs Bullseye, OAL 1.50"___717 fps, 6 Sd__752 fps, 19 Sd__RCBS Little Dandy Measure rotor #7

    Attachment 252609Attachment 252610
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check