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Thread: Cold Shop effects loading?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Cold Shop effects loading?

    Don't know if I'm in the right forum but decided to load up some 410 shot shells for the Grand kids for Christmas this morning. Don't recall having the problem before when using once fired AAA Hulls, but having major problem with the shell opening caving in when inserting wads. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    welcome to CB, try a space heater to warm the shells/work area
    Last edited by Conditor22; 12-07-2019 at 09:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    rancher1913's Avatar
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    do you use one of the cone devices to rework the shell mouth, i use a co2 cartridge on 12 gauge, seems to help with making everything slide in easier
    if you are ever being chased by a taxidermist, don't play dead

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I have found that 410's are pesky to reload compared to the larger ones. A cold hull only makes the plastic stiffer. I warm up the hulls and even the crimp chamber with a hair drier and as stated above find something to open up the old crimp.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    kungfustyle's Avatar
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    Don't know about shot shell but it sure affects casting. +1 to a heater to warm the area up a bit maybe set the hulls in front of the heater for a bit before you start.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The cold not only affects you but the machine as well. The plastic fingers and cases are much stiffer when cold. In reality the actual machine may be a benefit to being cold since things shrink when cold so it may be a slightly tighter machine. IN the Shop when doing fine work we would start the machine and idle at speed for 1/2hour to 45mins to warm it up and get it to temp. Plastic cases wad fingers cups all get much stiffer when cold.

    I would also look at hull length. wad fingers set on the shallow side the case may allow to cup to catch on the mouth

  7. #7
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    Being cold doesn't make for good ammunition. More about you being cold than the hulls. My knees hurt when it is cold in my shop. It just stopped raining here and I am going to go down and cast some boolits and slugs. I'll run the big fan for a while to suck out all the cold air and then start casting when the lead is melted. That will warm up the area.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for all the tips. Warmed up the hulls by leaving them in the house and turned on a space heater in the shop for about a hour. Seemed like I had less problem with case mouths caving in, but on the flip side when seating primers some of the plastic hulls separated from the brass bases. By the way I'm using a Ponsness 375 press.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy gumbo333's Avatar
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    Try a heat lamp out there, putting the hulls under the lamp for a while, should warm them up shortly. I don't like cold bones anymore either.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    Country Gent, thanks for the tip on wad fingers. Seems like that is part of the problem.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub
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    New semi problem? Every once in a while when I prime once fired AA 410 hulls, maybe 1 out of every 15 hulls or so, the hull gets pushed up about 1/4" or so. Using Winchester 209 primers. I just chuck them and move on. Have yet to see if other brands of hulls have the same problem.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Another way cold affects loading is when the hulls, components, machines are cold they all shrink slightly. This shrinkage varies with different materials. so what works in warm weather when every thigs is warmed may end up to short when cold. The expansion of plastic is more than aluminum steel is even less. When you look at it on paper it dosnt look like a lot but when everything is stacked up it can amount to .010-.015 change.

    This is why gage and inspection rooms are maintained at a constant temperature

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Another way cold affects loading is when the hulls, components, machines are cold they all shrink slightly. This shrinkage varies with different materials. so what works in warm weather when every thigs is warmed may end up to short when cold. The expansion of plastic is more than aluminum steel is even less. When you look at it on paper it dosnt look like a lot but when everything is stacked up it can amount to .010-.015 change.

    This is why gage and inspection rooms are maintained at a constant temperature
    I believe any ammo loaded in a cold area must be kept in a cold area till it is shot.
    I believe moisture from condensation will form inside the shells and make your powder wet and damp if this ammo is brought into a heated area.
    The ammo companies all load in a controlled temperature and humidity area.
    Any air included in shells loaded there will stay dry and maintain its humidity.
    Years ago I loaded 45/70 shells in winter, in the cold basement.
    They shot ok except for some leftovers I went to shoot up in the hot summer.
    They fizzled and opening the shells, I found damp gummy powder.
    I should have known better, but we live and learn.
    I can't recall reading a caution or warning in any of my reloading manuals.
    I have put out this info before quite a while back with no one noticing or commenting.
    I suppose this never happened to anyone else.
    Just like those skeet and trap bloopers that no one cares to investigate.
    Apparently never caused a problem before, for me either.
    But in the big 45/70 case, it did for me.
    I believe the dewpoint and temperature are what is critical for this to happen.
    If it is cold enough, the moisture is actually frozen out and the air is dry.
    But the crossover point can cause trouble.
    It feels colder outside at 40 degrees and damp weather, than when it has been below zero and warms up to 40 with very low humidity.
    Ok for reloaded ammo, but maybe its better to buy factory ammo for concealed carry as well as for hunting dangerous game.
    My 2 cts.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Rally's Avatar
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    You may have broken fingers on your wad guide. Is it crushing the same side of the shell each time?

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    Double checked and wad fingers are OK, Even tried a new wad guide and still same results.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Rally's Avatar
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    Not sure what kind of press you are using, but with a Mec 410 die set, there is an additional spacer on the wad guide assembly to allow the wad guide to travel farther downward, to compensate for 2.5" from the standard 2.75" length. Sounds like the wad is trying to enter the hull before the wad guide fingers are inside the hull.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
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    Using a Ponsness 375

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDRanch View Post
    New semi problem? Every once in a while when I prime once fired AA 410 hulls, maybe 1 out of every 15 hulls or so, the hull gets pushed up about 1/4" or so. Using Winchester 209 primers. I just chuck them and move on. Have yet to see if other brands of hulls have the same problem.
    I have seen plastic and paper base wads separate from a shell. I have never seen a head separate from the plastic body. I would throw every single one of them in the trash, those are bad. I know 410 is an ornery shell to load for. Can you try another brand of shell?

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    Don't worry. When they do push up its the trash bin. Also once I fire them they go to the trash also. Yes I may switch over and load some Remington 410 hulls
    Last edited by DDRanch; 02-14-2020 at 10:02 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check