Lee collet neck size die

[cupajoe]

Loading for the 7.62x39 Russian Shortsky.Is anyone using the collet neck sizers? Looking to maximize accuracy and case life. Just wondering if they work as advertised. I have standard RCBS dies for this cartridge and am wanting to try neck sizing for a Ruger American Ranch rifle headed my way.

[Elroy]

I do not use them for the reason of trying to milk a little more accuracy out of a load,but I do use them for a few guns I have.They will help your brass to last longer,especially for rifles with more headspace.

[44magLeo]

I have the collet neck size dies for several of the cartridges I own. I would like to get them for all my cartridges.
I may not get a drastic increase in accuracy, but I like not needing to lube the cases. I don't shoot as much as I used to so I have no Idea on any increase in case life.
I don't have the tools to measure case/bullet run out. So I can't say much on that.
Neck sizing has proven to make more accurate ammo, People who search for the utmost accuracy have done the proving.
Leo

[tazman]

I use them for my longer range bench rest rifles. They work fine.

[fast ronnie]

I find that they tend to have a straighter neck after using the Lee neck sizer than with full length standard dies.

[cupajoe]

Its good to see a product performs as advertised. I might give them a try . Thanks

[PositiveCaster]

I use one of mine on a .303 Enfield. Most loads are reduced cast loads, and I have not FL sized my cases in over eight reloadings. Accuracy is very good but I can’t say it is better than FL sizing. It is far easier due to the lack of a lube requirement.



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[Rick459]

cupajoe,
if you are going to try and squeeze maximum accuracy out of that bolt gun you will need good dies, good bullets,good primers,best powder for that caliber, and match case prep work which include, uniforming the primer pockets, de-burring the flash holes,and some where down the road neck turning. just remember that if you are neck sizing cases at some point in time the rounds will become hard to chamber or will not chamber at all. then you will either have to use a F/L die or a body die to bump the shoulder back to specs. but yes the Lee Collet Dies do work well.
Rick

[44magLeo]

Lee says using their collet sizer and there Dead length seater make the most accurate loads.
Has any one ever done a direct comparison?
As in have an accurate rifle and used some other brand of dies.
I don't have the money to invest in what it would take to determine these facts.
Prep the brass all the same. Load say 10 rounds the way you normally would, then load another 10 using Lee dies.
Compare full length as well as neck size sets.
Anyone out there ever do this?
Leo

[onelight]

Lee says using their collet sizer and there Dead length seater make the most accurate loads.
Has any one ever done a direct comparison?
As in have an accurate rifle and used some other brand of dies.
I don't have the money to invest in what it would take to determine these facts.
Prep the brass all the same. Load say 10 rounds the way you normally would, then load another 10 using Lee dies.
Compare full length as well as neck size sets.
Anyone out there ever do this?
Leo

That would sure tell you something for that rifle.
I think you would need to include several guns and see if the results were similar in all of them.
Perhaps someone here has.

[Rick459]

the Lee Dead Length seater is loads above all stock seater dies. i said stock so you can't compare them to Forster or Redding comp seater dies but it will seat the bullet more straight than stock seater dies as long as you set it up correctly which is to run the seater die down until it touches the shell holder and lock it in. the object is to capture the case so it does not move also the lee Death Length Seater has no crimp so it can be set this way. i used the lee Dead Length seater on my 550 for .223 until i got my Forester comp seater and i was getting run out between 1 1/2 thou to 2thou which really supprised me. with the forester i got 1 thou or less. also remember it does not matter what kind of in-line seater die you have if you cannot size the case straight in relationship to the case head no high end seater die will seat your bullets straighter.
Rick

[1hole]

Used correctly, Lee's Collet dies give me straighter necks than ANY other dies, at any price. Lee's Dead Length Seaters give me the straightest seated bullets, save a small bit better from Forster/Redding competition seaters, that's measured run-out, but most of my rifles aren't good enough to know the difference.

Sadly, unconventional dies are not magic. They (and Lee's excellent Factory Crimp Dies) have internal differences and a few moving parts so there is a learning curve in order to know when and how to use them correctly.

A LOT of reloaders (and casual shooters) will never see any difference in targets from any dies. It takes a very good rifle, scope, solid bench, front rest, rear sandbags and a precision SHOOTER along with a well developed handload to see any differences in effect between common dies and excellent dies. Assuming a good rig and at least moderate bench skills, load development is probably the most important single factor for most of us.

[44magLeo]

The testing I proposed is to use your best load in your best rifle. This way you are just tsting the use of the dies.
On bench rest rig where even minor differences in load performance is very noticeable would be the thing.
Most hunting rifles you might not see as much difference.
Leo

[megasupermagnum]

Compared to your basic die sets from Lee, RCBS, Hornady, etc. that all come with a full length sizer with expander ball, the Lee collet neck sizer will produce sized cases with less neck run out. I am almost certain that the high end bushing dies can do as well or better, but they also cost considerably more.

I love the Lee collet neck sizer. It's very accurate, and no lube. Once you quit trying to out think it, read the directions, you will realize how simply awesome it is. You will need to full length size at some point, however, with lower pressure cast loads in a bolt action it could be 10+ loadings before they get tight.

[Three44s]

One of the criteria I use when deciding whether to add another cartridge or not is the Lee collet die is available for it (either as issued or rednecked).

It is not a deal breaker but it is in the decision mix if it will be a bolt gun.

I know about the bushing dies and also that for more money Lee can build a custom collet die but I am referring to a standard cost one.

Not having to lube and then clean brass for neck sizing as an advantage can not be under rated either using the system.

Three44s

[Iowa Fox]

I have just about gone broke trying different dies and some of them aren't cheap. I gave up neck sizing a long time ago and so have most of the guys I know BUT I do use the Lee collet neck sizer. On the bottle neck cases that are loaded for accuracy I use a Redding body die, the Lee collet neck die, and a Forster seater. At first I was frustrated with the Lee die using their supplied instructions, I even called Lee but the tech was no help. Then I stumbled onto John Valentines instructions for use with a press that cams over. Whoa whole new die!!! Lots of guys skim cut necks to uniform them but I find if you squeeze them the turm a third of a turn or so and squeeze them again it really squeezes down the high spots. I hate neck skimming. Plus no donuts. Some of the bushing dies are good at giving you do nuts. It does take a press that cams over to work with Valentines instructions. Do yourself a favor and full length size everytime, its easier on your brass, nerves and firearm. I pasted his instructions just in case someone is interested.


Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed .
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product , it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in it’s base .
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press .
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases .
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
eg. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker , that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .

If you still cant get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful poilishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel.

There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any draging effect . Normally you dont need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck . After a few cases it coats up the mandrel .
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.

I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilise the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
*

[cupajoe]

Thank you, all who replied. Lots of good info. I splurged and ordered 100 new pieces of Lapua brass along with the Lee collet die set, should be here this evening. I have quite a bit of mixed brass that is used in the mini 30, the new Lapua will be reserved for the new bolt gun. My next door neighbor "FFL" called late yesterday evening and said the rifle had been delivered, I will pick it up this evening. His location is really damaging to my checking account, just have to walk across the pasture. Life is good.

[Three44s]

John Valentine writes that you adjust 1/8” of a turn as you advance a collet die.

I have been adjusting in much smaller increments than that.

My Redding BOSS single stage toggles over and I use it per Valentines suggestion where as Lee admonishes users to adjust the collet die to where you can not toggle over. I am sticking with Valentine until something breaks as I think he is more attuned here.

Three44s

[44magLeo]

I load on a Lee Challenger press. I use the collet neck size dies.
When you adjust the die as per the instructions, they work fine.
In the instructions is says "the lever will come to an abrupt stop. At this point the lever must be pushed firmly(min 25 lbs.) to close the collet and size the neck." I think this is where most have the problems. They don't apply enough pressure. I try to hold that pressure for a count of 15.
Some even use a torque wrench on the lever adjusting nut so they can get and hold a consistent pressure on the lever.
I think John Valentine's instructions just another way to do the same thing. It sounds a bit more complex than the way Lee does it.
Leo

[megasupermagnum]

It's not that hard, at least not the brass I've sized. I screw mine in, no place in particular, as long as it does NOT toggle over. I run the brass in, push, turn 1/8 turn, push and done. I can feel the brass size when I push, the force is about like running in a case into a full length sizer. No need to hold it, or use a torque wrench. Just get in a rhythm, and the design of the die will produce high quality sizing.

The danger with setting the die such that the press toggles over, is putting a tremendous force onto the die and damaging it. As I said, it doesn't take that terribly much force to use.