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Thread: Noob information request .45-70

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Noob information request .45-70

    Well, as I closed my comments within the .30-06 thread, I have decided to gain knowledge and experience via a better cartridge than that for my plunge into BPCR shooting. I would like to say that my choice of firearm is not traditional in that I will be using a TC Encore stainless platform with matching 24 .45-70 barrel. This is a single shot break action and comes equipped with iron sights and scope mounting ability. I am contemplation starting with a rear aperture then possibly a scope from there. This will be for fun and hunting only, with cast, lubed projectiles and black powder. As it is for hunting, what are the recommendations for cast projectile (mould)? I will be using soft (pure) lead. I already have a lube Im using in my fast twist muzzleguns of 40%beeswax, 40%tallow and 20% olive oil for bore sized conicals. Also any entry level tips or recommendations would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Cory

  2. #2
    You will get a lot more informative responses than this one, but let me add my two cents. Your Rifle has the cap[ability of excellent groups and killing power out to 300 yds. with smokeless and jacketed bullets. With cast bullets I would stay with between 300 and 405 gr. for acceptable recoil . That round was designed for 500 gr. and up so you will trying to make a silk purse out of a cows ear. With Black Powder your gun zeroed in at 100 yards you will probably have 18 " - 24" of drop at 200 and clean kills become questionable. If you do this you will definitely have to know your limitations.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Agreed. Likely will sight in somewhere around 2-3” high at 100. Limitations appeal to me, thats part of the challenge. Took my elk this year with a traditional sidelock muzzleloader at 26 yards.
    Cory

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    First check your twist rate this will help determine choice of the bullet. powder charge that fills the case to the base of the bullet ( possibly even a little more than). Use a lube that's effective with BP. A good wad between powder and bullet. Load just off the rifling, this keeps loading easier.
    Once a bullet is selected determine overall length and where the base of the bullet sits in the case. With your chosen BP find a charge that fills the case to this point no air space no compression with the wad. seat the bullet to this point. Work up adding powder and compression from here to the sweet spot.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...an-others-here
    Much if not almost all the info you seek is available with a bit of diligent research (using the google search function top right side of site). Yours is not the 1st trip along this path, read of others trials & successes.
    "He who doesn't learn from history is doomed to repeat it".....learning from others published success and failure will guarantee you a shorter trip to your goal, as well as answer questions you don't even know you will have yet.
    An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "Inside me two wolves fight," he told the boy.
    "One is evil - he is anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity, resentment, lies, false pride, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, generosity, truth and faith. The same fight is inside you - and every other person, too."
    The grandson thought for a minute and asked,"Which wolf will win?"
    The old Cherokee replied, "The one you feed."

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    Dually noted sir, all questions retracted everyone as I will just continue my research. After all, there’s books about all this beyond the approximately 9 I already own and the reading I’ve already done for the past couple years.
    Of note however, without questions, excitement and answers, this site would not have anything to read....
    Cory

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    You'll probably want to use something other than pure lead. 20-1 or 16-1 both make good bullets.
    A good 405 gr bullet sized .458 or 459 should serve you well.
    Start with 70 grs. of 2f, with a .030 fiber wad between the bullet and the powder.
    Don't crimp the bullet any more than it takes to remove the flare from the case mouth.
    Blowtube or wipe between shots. Getting a good routine of using a blow tube, or simply blowing down the breech will give good results for hunting. Wiping between shots is where the best accuracy strings will likely come from.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Cory I've absorbed more by accident reading here than on purpose .

    I have a half dozen moulds suited to the 45-70 with paper patch in some cases .

    The 457193 Lyman 405 has been the most flexible bullet so far .
    I think the 462-420 even in it's HB configuration would be more than you would care to shoot in such a light platform as it likes to be driven hard .

    The 457132 Lyman Postell or the NOE version of it is a very mild sub sonic choice , and of near pure would I'm sure be an acceptable game bullet . At a sloth 1100 fps my Strelok app predicts 8" high at 100 and 8" low at 200 with a 150 yd zero and carries 1000 ftlbs past 350 yd . Shooting bears out the trajectory information within accuracy limits .

    A 350 in a 6.5# bolt gun is easy to get to 1900+ fps but it's rather abusive to shoot very many of them . Of course in a heavier 1895 paper patched it is easier to shoot at that level and about twice the felt recoil of the 535 gr sub sonic 457132 above .

    I have a plincking 250 gr that is loadable to a comparable hot 45 Colts or 454 or I expect could be hopped up to match 460 X frame speeds but aerodynamics makes it rather pointless over 100 yd or so . Although the impact on small targets would , I'm sure , be spectacular .

    BP would will of course make pure to 1-16 more usable and negate most of the above manipulation of of velocities .

    I have obviously responded to a post without looking to see which forum it was posted .... With a grain of salt as needed .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    Kraschenbirn's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, your TC barrel has a 1:20 twist so you'll be good with just about any boolit weight but, as stated previously, you'll also have something of a rainbow trajectory. My Trapdoor carbine (22" barrel, 1879 rear sight), when zeroed for 100 yds, shoots about 16"-18" low at 200 using a 405 gr. RNFP over 55 gr. FFg. Dropping down to a 350 grain boolit will shoot a little flatter but not an awful lot.

    You're probably going to get leading with 'pure' regardless of your lube. I use 30-1 lubed with Emmert's in all my BPCR guns but that's just what works for me. I've seen recommendations for everything from 15-1 to 50-1 but, believe me, even using a tin-rich alloy, expansion won't be much of an issue with a solid hit.

    Bill
    "I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."

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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I have the Katadin 20" barrel on my Encore. It likes Lyman 457122 Gould HP but I haven't used BP in that case in that rifle.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I predict pain and disappointment. My words are from experience rather then discouragement.

    My Encore 45-70 barrel is a kickin demon! Even lite loads are somewhat a handfull in this very super lite platform. After my experiments with it, I have yet to return to it. I can not imagine what a 400 or 500 grain boolit would be like with a case full of 2F black powder.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy

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    You may want to try shotgun shell powdered buffer to load the 45-70 down a bit. I shot it in a 44-40 and it helped a lot. I would try lead a bit harder than pure with that tight twist, maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 30. Good shooting.
    Bob
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check