General ML accuracy questions

[John McCorkle]

As I understand it, overshot cards/wads help to create a seal for gas blowby which results in more consistent velocity/pressure and results in better accuracy...I would assume on conical loads it helps to protect the bullet base too? Am I missing anything about wads/overshot cards?

Is there any harm or danger (aside from a potential negative impact on accuracy) for putting an overshot card and/or wad on all BP loads? If I understand correctly what they do why not use them all the time (I guess for Minnie ball that would cause a problem as the wad or card could jam into the skirt)

Can I test with variables such as felt wad, over powder card, powdered fillers in the load stack to see what works best? Or is this futile. My goal is to get as good a seal behind that boolit as possible to eliminate variables in velocity and pressure...but not sure if I can try too much or too many variables and introduce additional accuracy sapping potential

Second question is loading procedure and bouncing the rod. I bounce the loading rod to ensure I have a slightly compressed load and no airspace. Wouldn't this deform the boolit? Does this effect accuracy?



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[brewer12345]

Try with and without a wad or card. My tc rifles both wanted a wad to shoot conicals, the 54 showed much improved prb groups with a wad. Other rifles don't seem to need them.

[rbuck351]

If you happen to shoot 54 cal, a 28ga shotgun shotcup wad works really well. I drop in a 50 cal rb and put a gob of lube in the center compression part of the wad. They go down the barrel very easy shot after shot and my 54 cal CVA shoots them into about 1 1/4" at 50yds. May shoot better if I had better eyes. I assume it seals the bore very well and also seems to lube the bore very well. Not very traditional but it works.

[shortlegs]

A friend of mine uses cotton balls between the powder and patched ball. 200 yd shots are no problem for him. (I have trouble seeing that far)

[waksupi]

You do not need to bounce the ramrod. I hate seeing people doing that.

[Mac118]

I use a felt wad smeared with lube under my conical bullets for both .40 and .50. The .40 I shoot at 200 yards and get consistent results.

[dave951]

As I understand it, overshot cards/wads help to create a seal for gas blowby which results in more consistent velocity/pressure and results in better accuracy...I would assume on conical loads it helps to protect the bullet base too? Am I missing anything about wads/overshot cards?

Is there any harm or danger (aside from a potential negative impact on accuracy) for putting an overshot card and/or wad on all BP loads? If I understand correctly what they do why not use them all the time (I guess for Minnie ball that would cause a problem as the wad or card could jam into the skirt)


Second question is loading procedure and bouncing the rod. I bounce the loading rod to ensure I have a slightly compressed load and no airspace. Wouldn't this deform the boolit? Does this effect accuracy?

First off, yes, over powder cards help with some boolits, but not all especially with minies. We shoot minies in competition in the NSSA and wads are a no no and absolutely not good for accuracy. The only way to tell is experiment.

Second, bouncing the ramrod? Really? I mean we go to great lengths casting perfect boolits looking for accuracy and then slapping them out of shape with a ramrod makes zero sense. That said, consistent seating pressure does help in round ball and conicals. Last summer, I worked on a project teaching Scouts muzzleloading. We used Zouave muskets with minies. I ran one of the muskets in an open shoot for over 50 shots straight with no wiping and no loss of accuracy. The gun was never got worse than it was at the third shot for fouling. When ramming, one firm, smooth stroke down, remove ramrod, cap and shoot.

[John McCorkle]

Thanks for the replies, I experimented with my online to find durofelt was under my Lee REAL was the ticket ...man this things are accurate (at least for my rifle) but only mediocre without a felt wad.

I'm prepping for a TC hawken in 50 I was gifted and want to shoot roundballs as accurately as can be achieved. But in my experimentation I want to know what to attempt vs what has no value.

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[charlie b]

For round balls just patch and shoot. You could try different lubes with the patches to see which you like best, from water or spit to specially formulated goo. I have found that adding a 'wad' to the PRB did nothing for me and sometimes made the load shoot worse.

Wads are there to help upset the bullet into the grooves on firing. Keeps the gases from 'leaking' and eroding the bullet. Minie or other hollow base bullets really do not need them as the hollow cavity is designed to do the same thing. Which wad is up to the rifle and bullet.

I had best luck with a card wad and felt wad, but, I mostly shot paper patched bullets so the felt wad was needed to help keep the fouling soft. I would seat the card on top of the powder, using quite a bit of compression on it. Then load the felt wad and bullet at the same time. Mine were sized for a slip fit in the bore (the weight of the ramrod would seat the bullet).

[Maven]

... bouncing the ramrod? Really? I mean we go to great lengths casting perfect boolits looking for accuracy and then slapping them out of shape with a ramrod makes zero sense. That said, consistent seating pressure does help in round ball and conicals. ...dave951

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[rfd]

there is a viable worth to "bouncing the rod" for some guns and shooters, and i will always load in that manner.

[indian joe]

there is a viable worth to "bouncing the rod" for some guns and shooters, and i will always load in that manner.

I wouldnt call my deal bouncing ----but three firm bumps from about three inches above the ball --
Shoot a ml over a chronygraph and ya might be amazed / dismayed at the velocity variation from just a little variation in loading pressure (I was anyway)

Heard or read this ditty someplace many years ago

" If ya wanna kill em dead
Ram tha powder NOT tha lead"

Something from the old days - I have no idea what where or when - but its got in my head and never left...........

[John McCorkle]

I wouldnt call my deal bouncing ----but three firm bumps from about three inches above the ball --
Shoot a ml over a chronygraph and ya might be amazed / dismayed at the velocity variation from just a little variation in loading pressure (I was anyway)

Heard or read this ditty someplace many years ago

" If ya wanna kill em dead
Ram tha powder NOT tha lead"

Something from the old days - I have no idea what where or when - but its got in my head and never left...........

Great little rhyme...does any manufacturer make a flat face attachment for packing powder?

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[PapaG]

Card wad under the ball worked for me in the rifle-musket with round ball. Don't put anything over the ball as you can ruin a barrel if the ball overruns the wad.

[bob208]

I have shot in many matches. I have seen guys bouncing the ramrod they have never finished in the prizes . ramrod bouncing and accuracy do not go hand and hand.

[charlie b]

Great little rhyme...does any manufacturer make a flat face attachment for packing powder?

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I use the cleaning jag. It is near enough to bore dia and seats the card wad on top of the powder nicely with as much pressure as you want.

I never understood why the rod is bounced. If you need to compress the load then just apply pressure to the rod. If not enough to grab onto then drill a short hole in your starter handle and use it on the rod.

[megasupermagnum]

Wow, that is one of the simplest ideas I've heard. I doubt it will help my dismal (compared to target shooters) accuracy. I'll try seating my felt wad first on the powder, and then seating the ball on top of that.

[indian joe]

I have shot in many matches. I have seen guys bouncing the ramrod they have never finished in the prizes . ramrod bouncing and accuracy do not go hand and hand.

it worked for me a couple times

[Edward]

Wow, that is one of the simplest ideas I've heard. I doubt it will help my dismal (compared to target shooters) accuracy. I'll try seating my felt wad first on the powder, and then seating the ball on top of that.

Not the felt wad , the card is over the powder (THEN) the felt wad

[Hickory]

You do not need to bounce the ramrod. I hate seeing people doing that.

Never could figure out why anyone would want to deform their balls doing this!
One mans pudding is another mans poison!