Your experience with Lee TL 38 wadcutters

[PBSmith]

A few years ago I placed an order with Matt's bullets for a variety of 38 slugs I wanted to try in 38 Special revolvers. Among them was a box of the Lee TL wadcutter. They arrived tumble-lubed and obviously not sized.

After running a few through the micrometer, I didn't expect any kind of accuracy. The diameters were erratic in each bullet and from bullet to bullet.

Much to my surprise, the accuracy was quite respectable, at least to 25 yards. The groups I was able to shoot with these TL jobs were almost as good as those shot with bullets cast in an H&G 50 mold. I shot only a couple of groups, but the results were impressive.

Two questions for those who own and cast with a six-holer in this Lee design:
1. are your bullets uniformly round and of nearly the same diameter from cavity to cavity?
2. what kind of accuracy have you been able to post with this bullet? Is it minute-of-pie-plate, or do they hold with your better wadcutters?

Thanks, PBSmith

[robbyPGP2014]

Surprisingly this bullet also shot much better than expected. when I first cast this bullet Isized to .358, but have long since have been casting as is and cannot tell any difference in accuracy

[35remington]

50 yard groups are comparable to the many other wadcutter designs I shoot. The low cost and high production potential of a six cavity make it a good option. To avoid chambering problems I size all bullets before loading as the as cast diameter of .359” is a smidge large for my Colt 38s.

No big deal.

Most commonly used over 3.1 to 3.5 of Bullseye in 38 for 705 to 800 and 780 to 870 fps from a 1 7/8 and four inch barrel respectively.

[GBertolet]

Measuring tumble lubed bullets, will often give erratic readings. The thickness variation of the lube, due to how it is applied, will cause this. Nothing to worry about.

[Dale53]

Ed Harris has mentioned many times, that he often uses a tumble lubed bullet, unsized, then when he loads the cartridge, he uses the Lee Factory Crimp die to "compress size" at the last stage. That way, he gets the benefit of easy lubing and the final correct size without "paying a penalty" of extra work. I have tried the system and it does work.

In all honesty, I am set up with a Star lube/sizer, and most of my loads are "cast, lube/size with the Star, and load".

But-t-t, if I were just starting out, I would seriously consider Ed's "cast, tumble lube, load with the Lee FCD" method and save a good deal of money by not buying a Star.

Just a thought or two.

FWIW
Dale53

[smkummer]

Every time I shoot my 2 1/2” python at 50 ft. for our monthly CC match, I win. 3 grains bullseye and this bullet. I easy shoot 1K of these a year. I can’t remember if I am sizing them, if they are .358-359, I probably don’t. I also don’t water quench these as well as with wheel weight alloy, 12 BHN is a good hardness.

[tazman]

At one point, I tried out every wadcutter design I could get my hands on. I found that all my cast wadcutters shot about the same. No significant differences.
The Lee TL wadcutter shot as well as the rest did. I tried it both sized and unsized. No difference.
That said, I am now using the Lyman 358091 simply because I don't shoot enough wadcutters to need the extra production and I like the bevel base for ease of loading.

[ShooterAZ]

I cast and shoot the Lee Non-TL Wadcutters. The lube grooves are so shallow they might as well be a TL style, but I tumble lube them anyway. I just use range scrap, and size them to .358 in a push through sizer. Just a very light coat of thinned LLA, and they shoot great with either W231 or Bullseye powder. Miles of smiles with these boolits for sure.

[35remington]

I have had fine results with the normal lube groove Lee 148 wadcutters as well. If you prefer normal lube and a lubrisizer that may be the way to go, but only the bottom lube groove needs lubricant. Lubing all grooves is thought to open groups.

[JBinMN]

Two questions for those who own and cast with a six-holer in this Lee design:
1. are your bullets uniformly round and of nearly the same diameter from cavity to cavity?

Yes. The mold I have drops them consistent thru all cavities. I size when I want to as a choice and not as something that is necessary to do.

2. what kind of accuracy have you been able to post with this bullet? Is it minute-of-pie-plate, or do they hold with your better wadcutters?

Minute of regular sized paper plate(pie plate) at 15 yds using snubnosed revolvers. That size of "accuracy" is "my fault" though, & not the handguns nor the boolit style. I had UNT surgery on both of my elbows due to neuropathy & my grips & arm strength is not what it used to be, & my accuracy suffers from that. I have shot comparative 148gr. WCs that had the 2 lube grooves ( I do not remember the name/type, but were home cast & not from any named company or factory. If I looked, I might still have the box of 500 I got years ago, but like I said, I do not remember the name of the mold type nor the guy who made them.)

Thanks, PBSmith

G'Luck! & I hope ya find what you are looking for.

[PBSmith]

Thanks, all. I might just try an early self-Santa on the Lee WC.

[Tracy]

Ed Harris has mentioned many times, that he often uses a tumble lubed bullet, unsized, then when he loads the cartridge, he uses the Lee Factory Crimp die to "compress size" at the last stage. That way, he gets the benefit of easy lubing and the final correct size without "paying a penalty" of extra work. I have tried the system and it does work.

In all honesty, I am set up with a Star lube/sizer, and most of my loads are "cast, lube/size with the Star, and load".

But-t-t, if I were just starting out, I would seriously consider Ed's "cast, tumble lube, load with the Lee FCD" method and save a good deal of money by not buying a Star.

Just a thought or two.

FWIW
Dale53

I cast that boolit too, and have chambering issues if I don't size them. I would rather size them beforehand than use the FCD. I don't see where the FCD would save any time, since it is still an extra step.

[Dale53]

Tracy;
I use a Dillon 550b and there is no extra step involved. The Lee FCD insures that the cartridge will not exceed SAAMI standards of outside diameter. If your handgun uses “normal” bullet diameter Ed’s method works perfectly well.

FWIW
Dale53

[Tracy]

Tracy;
I use a Dillon 550b and there is no extra step involved. The Lee FCD insures that the cartridge will not exceed SAAMI standards of outside diameter. If your handgun uses “normal” bullet diameter Ed’s method works perfectly well.

FWIW
Dale53

Oh, I see. Never thought of that. I've always used a single stage press.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

when I first started casting, the Lee TL WC was one of my first molds. It would lead foul my revolvers. It was long enough ago, that I wasn't educated enough to figure out why, I sold it and then bought the Lee WC with traditional lube grooves, and it didn't give me any problems. It is highly likely that the problems I had with the Lee TL WC was my fault and not the mold design.

Today, I tumble lube the Lee WC and prefer it over some others I've tried since then ...but that has to do with my personal preference of the Lee 6 cav design (for fast production) over the several 2 cav or 4 cav Iron molds I've tried (RCBS, Lyman, H&G and another one?).

[Conditor22]

Don't know about the TL one but 358-148 WC is an excellent boolit

[Patrick L]

I'm not home, so I can't check the diameter of any bullets, but I agree with a previous poster that I would only check diameter of UNLUBED bullets. The liquid lube would likely give inconsistent results.

That said, this bullet was the one I cut my teeth on way back in 1989. I started with a 2 cavity, quickly went to a 6 banger and have cast a bazillion boolits out of that mold. It has NEVER produced a boolit too fat to chamber in any of the four S&W .38s I've used it in. It leaves nothing to be desired accuracy wise all the way out to 50 yards.

[Ia.redneck]

I've found it to be very accurate. 2.7 of WST or 2.5 of Clays, and the classic 2.7 of Bullseye.
Buy it, you wont be disappointed.

[PBSmith]

Measuring tumble lubed bullets, will often give erratic readings. The thickness variation of the lube, due to how it is applied, will cause this. Nothing to worry about.

Believing your explanation might be the reason I measured erratic diameters, I used a soft toothbrush and Xylene to remove the tumble lube from a few of the Lee TL wadcutters. Then I measured diameters at three levels on the bullets, rotating at each level and measuring at 90 degrees.

The results are at least as bad as those I got measuring the tumble-lubed bullets. Diameters on the majority were consistent at 0.359-.360. The bad examples had diameter variations ranging from 0.3565 to 0.3605". That's on one and the same bullet.

In the few groups that I shot before starting this thread, I got no group flyers (5-shot groups). Apparently I was lucky to have used bullets with consistent diameters. I suspect ten-shot groups would be more revealing of mold quality.

Good casting and shooting, Lads. Appreciate your responses

[Drm50]

I shoot nothing but cast and mostly WCs in all calibers in my S&W revolvers. I don't like Lee WCs. They may be ok at up to 50ft. but we shoot out to 100yds with Lyman 438-148 and Lee WCs key hole badly. Shooting in 357 cases out of m27 S&W. I didn't bother to try them in m19 and shot what I had cast up in 38sp as plink ammo and sold the mold.