New Rifle today, for deer hunting tomorrow?

[DonMountain]

Every year I have been lending my grandson a 303 British No. 4 MK 1 for deer hunting with 200 grain 314299 Lyman cast gas checked bullets over 30.0 grains of IMR-4895. With this rifle I can easily put 5 rounds in 3" at 100 yards. This year he shot several times out in an open field and can't seem to hit anything with it. So his father, that seems to be having the same problem got together with his brother and purchased a Remington 783 in 308 with a scope for the child to use this weekend (Saturday and Sunday for deer hunting) with purchased 180 grain jacketed bullets (Federal). They went to a public shooting range and fired half a box of cartridges (10 of them) at 25 yards, missing the 16" square target on the first 3 or 4 fired. After making many adjustments they finally got the bullet to hit 2" high and 1-1/2" left of center, and called it good and came home. Stating that the rifle was ready for those long shots the grandchild might make when he first handles the gun in two days. To say the least I am a little uneasy about this situation? I have lots of both factory and lead bullets I could load for this 308, but time is not on my side and the Son who bought the rifle for the grandson insists that it was set up for Federal 180 grain bullets so forevermore thats what should be fired in this rifle?

[country gent]

I to would be uneasy in the combination of new out of the box gun and new shooter with little trigger time on the rifle. Some time to "wring" out the rifle then work with the grandson with it would be much better. !0 rounds isn't much to test prove a rifle. I too would want some more time to work with a rifle scope set up before putting it in the field.
Im curious why a company like reminginton that builds rifles loads ammo would set a rifle up for a competitors ammo?????

One thing that could be done to help the grandson would be some dry fire trigger time, get him used to trigger and rifle a little bit. If this is done be safe and no live ammo in the room where its done. But this will fet him used to trigger break and pull. Also will give him a "feel" for the rifle

[Ford SD]

I have a 783 ...223
the first time I took it to the range I pulled the bolt,
put it on sandbags, and lined up the barrel.. looking through the Barrel I lined it up with a target at 100yds
and lined the scope on max power .. X with the target

Put the bolt back in and fired 3 rounds .. all 3 rounds were on a 8x11 sheet of paper @ 100
I fired more rounds was not happy .. all over the place
took it home took it apart and used the dremel tool to remove some material in the forstock ... not free floated enough
cleaned barrel and put it back togeather
front screw 30-35 inch pounds
Back screw 5 inch pounds

Next time it shot better groups

Your results may vary
the cheep scope is not the best but will get the job done

[rking22]

If it’s 2 inches hi at 25 yards he is going to shoot over anything at a reasonable range. Some folks seem to have to learn their own lessons and the hard way! If the deer is at 30 yards or under, then why not use your setup. Suspect a different rifle isn’t going to fix a deficit of basic shooting skills.

[Duckiller]

I would reccomend 150-165 gr projectiles over 180 gr. The lighter bullets will drop deer in their tracks. 180gr is great for elk or moose. Deer if it is the only thing you can buy or make.

[dverna]

Being judgmental...but here goes.

The acorn does not fall from the tree. Your son was not raised with any knowledge on the subject and your grandson is set to do the same. Take your share of responsibility for the ignorance of your son.

Buy two boxes of .308 ammunition, and help them out. Explain what you are doing and why. Then your son and grandson will learn the proper way to sight in a rifle and not remain ignorant.

Sorry to be blunt. But I just had this happen to a youngster this weekend at a neighboring deer camp. Poor kid missed the shot. Yesterday his granddad came over to get my help.

[Texas by God]

My kids had to be able to hit a Copenhagen Can at a hundred yards from a rest and 50 yards off hand before I took them deer hunting. They all did and can. Your offspring will have to watch a bunch of YouTube tracking videos with the setup they have. At least borrow their gun and do the one shot sight in on it please.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[gumbo333]

Better shooting it than chewing it, I say! 125 gr in a 308 is plenty for any deer in the USA.

[rking22]

Op didn’t say whether those few shots in an open field were at deer or targets, nor age size of the youth. My experience has been that new hunters have no idea where to shoot the deer and tend to shoot at the whole thing, or center mass. I had my kids shoot at an archery deer target, the printed paper one with no aim point but ghosted in vitals. Went from a 22 to the 308 that was loaded with 125 gr Rem jsps at 2250ish. 7.62x39 or 30Herrett realm and near zero recoil. They learned where to hold and to pick a spot. I also set up where 50 yards was all they were going to get to shoot. Result was success, and we had fun getting ready. I have tried to get “dads” to listen for years, little luck in that. When a 10 year old wounds a deer, if we have instilled the respect for the animals we hunt, it is a very bad experience. Last week tried to get a guy to setup in the woods rather than his bean field stand for his daughter. Would not listed, thought she could make the 300 yard shot. Complete miss, severalp times, luckily. Forgot, Ihave seen that stand, there is no shot under 150 yards. Seems there is some bragging rights to shooting one “way out there” and none for getting close nowadays.

[bikerbeans]

OP didn't say but I think the grandson's father is the OP's SIL, not son. Grandson has previously hunted with the 303 so who knows why he can't shoot it this year. Maybe old enough to be distracted by girls?

Buying a deer rifle and then trying to sight it in and going hunting in a couple of days is never a good idea.

BB

[white eagle]

2"high and 1.5" left @25 is a disaster
I would not want to be near him when he lets loose
rushing with a rifle is not a good idea
dverna gave some solid advice

[Ford SD]

missing when you could shoot it before... 1 year later ... Does the grandson need Glasses .. eyes change

or did the grandson pick up a flinch ..... Pellet gun time

[murf205]

DonMountain, I don't know how old the grandson is but with his limited experience, he is probably flinching like hell especially with the recoil of 180 gr bullets. A 243 or even a 223 with the proper bullets would be a much better option if you have one. Really good ear protection is also a must for first time and younger shooters (as well as the rest of us) to get used to the blast. It is super hard to teach a young shooter anything when he/she is getting roughed up with every shot. You might want to tag along and sit with the grandson to keep him calmed down. That's a tall order when they see their first deer in the sights but that's what us granddads do, right? I don't know who told them that Federal 180 gr was the only ammo for that rifle but I suspect that guy was working in the shoe dept prior to that.

[DonMountain]

Well, I appreciate all the responses to this situation. The "Grandson" is 25 years old now, and weighs about 350 pounds at 6'-2" tall. But not much of it is muscle. He came to live with his grandmother and I when he was about 12 years old, and over the years I taught him how to shoot that 303 British rifle and he shot it often. Sometimes taking a couple of deer at more than 100 yards with it. After he left home with us, he stopped deer hunting and only rarely came down to shoot. But that is why I put him back with that rifle with the same loads he shot all those deer with. His father (not my son, but my wife's) is an expert on everything to do with firearms. Including sighting them in. If you don't believe him, just ask him. He is such an expert rifleman that he "built" an AR-15 in 223 Remington and they (the grandchild's half brother and father) come over with 10 boxes of cheap ammo and throw a bunch of beer cans out about 25 yards in the field and just stand there to see how fast they can shoot that gun at the cans. I don't think they even can use the sights. They do the same thing with a 45 ACP 1911 pistol they just bought. Both of them wounded a couple of deer this year already and couldn't find them. So, this is the situation facing me. My wife sides with them of course when we get into a discussion about this. But then I am just new to this game of shooting. Oh, and reloading of course. I just started doing that recently of course and I don't know nuthing about anything.

[Hamish]

I wish I hadn't clicked on this thread.

Don, it's out of your hands. Act accordingly. You've tried to head off the stupidness but it appears that it will not be denied.

[murf205]

You have my heart felt sympathies brother. After all, how could we know squat, we're OLD! I am fortunate to have a lot of young friends that listen to any advise I give them and they are very dear to me. Hell, at times my 40 yr old son even listens!

[veeman]

If it's your property, simply deny them permission to "hunt" on it. It won't please anyone but you, but you won't have a bunch of gut-shot 3 legged deer around either.

[725]

Sad tale. The youngest is going to have a bad experience, I suspect. The deer won't be served with a clean, humane kill and ego's will probably lead to resentments and arguments. So many things wrong with what you have described. Keep trying to give good advice even if they don't listen.

[DonMountain]

Well, I have decided to resolve the situation completely (although the grandson just showed up to go hunting with the "rifle"). I have decided to work on my collection of antique Pacific shotshell reloaders, especially the DL-110 I just purchased from freeBay, of course minus some parts that I can fabricate in my mini-lathe. And spend more time shooting trap back behind the barn where I used to shoot lead bullets. And spend more time looking at the shotgun shell web site. And make sure my 45-70 case is clean from shooting my deer last weekend. With a 300 grain gaschecked bullet from an RCBS mold. And about 30 grains of IMR-4198 I think?

[rking22]

DonMountain, you are a wise man