Makes you wonder......had he labeled the boxes, 'for components only', as we all see so often....would it have made a difference? I'm not defending the guy, he obviously broke the law. I'm also in agreement that his prosecution was purely political theatre, as it happens all day long, every day. I don't really have a side to this fence......just wondering if a little CYA on his part might have made a difference?
"Do not follow where the path might lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson
I have had friends ask me. I tell them no, But the can bring their own components over and I will set them up so all they have to do is pull the handle.
I don't want the liability and it is illegal if I don't have the right license or insurance.
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"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
~Theodore Roosevelt~
Loading ammo for someone else is not illegal. Loading ammo for SALE without the properly license is.Originally Posted by alamogunr
Like you I load for some friends and family and I do shoot some reloads from friends. Some on here will scream the sky is failing over this and frankly I don't care. These are the same people that claim doom and gloom over trusting others reloads yet they have no problem hopping into a car and letting the so called untrustworthy person drive.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/faqs.htm
(A4) What kinds of ammunition are covered by the GCA?
Ammunition includes cartridge cases, primers, bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm.
Items NOT covered include blank ammunition, tear gas ammunition, pellets and nonmetallic shotgun hulls without primers.
Generally, no records are required for ammunition transactions. However, information about the disposition of armor piercing ammunition is required to be entered into a record by importers, manufacturers, and collectors.
A license is not required for dealers in ammunition only.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17) and 922(b)(5), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.125]
(F11) Is a license required to engage in the business of selling small arms ammunition? [Back] No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of ammunition must be licensed.
[18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(1)(B)]
(H3) May a person licensed as a manufacturer of firearms also manufacture ammunition?
Yes. The person may also manufacture ammunition (not including destructive device ammunition or armor piercing ammunition) without obtaining a separate license as a manufacturer of ammunition.
(H4) Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [Back]
Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]
Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-20-2019 at 02:01 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Thank you M-Tecs for being an informed, rational voice here. On the two topics that seem to be repeated here...
1. I reload for several people. I do not do it for profit but in the name of friendship and camaraderie, and in the spirit of working to promote the shooting sports in a positive manner. I have good judgement about the people I call friends- I hope you do too? When I reload ammo for a friend, I have no more liability than if I helped him repair a light switch at his house. This is what friends do.
2. The ammo manufacturer from Nevada was arrested and prosecuted because
A. He was manufacturing ammo without a license, and
B. As others here said, since the principal perp in the case was dead, SOMEONE had to go to jail. He did break the law with his ammo business, and he did earn arrest and prosecution.
For how the law is that is why I have the person with me to help to reload the ammo and have them buy all the supplies. I do not want anyone to come back on me for it and I am picky on who I would do it with. I did in the past had someone ask me to reload ammo for them .I told them you buy the supplies and need to be with me to do it. They told me no you buy the supplies and then load it then I will pay you. I told them no and that the end of it . lso for get with in the law is that is why I have the person help me for there own use and but the supplies them self .I would go with them if they like to get them to know what they need.
Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA
I'm in the same boat as others, if they want reloaded ammo, come over with the components and I will set you up on a press and you can make all you want. I have several people that want to, but never follow through. I only allow my reloads I make be shot through my guns only, that way if something goes wrong then it's my gun that is broken, I would feel so guilty if I ruined someone else's gun.
When I'm ask to load ammo for others I tell them to buy the components and come over and I'll help them. This is usually the end of it but occasionally someone does and gets interested enough to start loading.
I don't like to shoot other peoples reloads and will only shoot ammo loaded by a chosen few people that I know well.
If you are going to load ammo for resale you need to have the proper license and insurance. Its the law!
I won’t because of a possible squib getting thru, I have had 1 get thru and it was caught, luckily by some one who recognized it and took appropriate action. Especially on a progressive press. Semi auto prolly wont cycle but revolver being the worst. Can’t be too cautious even with my own custom boolits.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Collector and shooter of guns and other items that require a tax stamp, Lead and brass scrounger. Never too much brass, lead or components in inventory! Always looking to win beauty contests with my reloads.
The BATFE is explicit about licensing required for manufacturing ammo for sale and explicit about manufacturing ammo for "personal use". The wrinkle comes that BATFE doesn't define "personal use" . The reloader using their ammo is likely ok but what if the reloader gives (gifts) the ammo to somebody else?
A gift is personal use. The gift was produced as a gift and not for produced for livelihood or profit. While finding example of reloading are more challenging it is easy to find the BATF view on what "personal use" is relating to the occasional sales for firearms without a license. This is a non-issue.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-20-2019 at 02:51 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I think the government might well have hit the seller up for licenses and back taxes etc. if they way he had been discovered was sitting at a table in a gun show. The shooting made him way too high profile for anyone to let this slide or grant a lenient response. One can call it politics but I think it is just more of a practical matter. No way left open to "go easy" on the guy.....2. The ammo manufacturer from Nevada was arrested and prosecuted because
A. He was manufacturing ammo without a license, and
B. As others here said, since the principal perp in the case was dead, SOMEONE had to go to jail. He did break the law with his ammo business, and he did earn arrest and prosecution.
The ammo being AP bullets and tracers PLUS the whole gloves when taking possession thing just makes law enforcement and prosecutors less inclined to want to go easy on him. Although depending on amount being toted work gloves might have been appropriate.
He got a sort of rough break but he also sort of did his part toward insuring he got that rough break.
I don't mind making a box for family, or even friends. It is a bit more hassle since for myself I will normally settle into weighing the charge every so many rounds after establishing the powder is dispensing in correct amount. For family or friends it is 100% weigh each charge. I'm with whomever said you want hot loads go to the store. I'll go as far as snappy or brisk but not going to load them hot. I wouldn't ever sell any of my ammo.
My preference is for people to come by and load their own but don't mind making a box once in awhile, not going to ever sell any. I hope to die with plenty of components but not too much in the way of loaded cartridges. Estate can sell components for a fair price. Reloaded ammo is essentially going to not fetch much compared to what the individual components would have.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
I make for my personal family have for over 30 years , no problem for friends and family making them some ammo , problem there is not gov. but liability reloading for others puts you at risk for your ammo blew up my gun and or injured someone , do at your own discretion , this is a high profile selling to someone who did wrong .
I would hope my children shoot up my loads same after I am gone as when we shoot while I am alive , prudent reloading practices and pay attention , you want to make some ammo come by I will talk you through process and supply equipment , you bring most of the components for what you want , no problem , so many say they want to but so few do come to learn , so many are happy to shoot your ammo when there is none to be had but do not want to share the cost and labor , and they may shoot some once but not twice .
While reloading as a gift does have a possible liability concern the same can be said for cooking a meal for someone or giving someone a ride in your car.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Your last part sums it up very well. That is what alot want to do. do not shear the cost or labor, They are the one that wants it let them spend the time and cost into it .
Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA
Same thing I do when someone ask me to reload for them.
Whenever some asks me if I will load ammo for them, I always take it as they either want free ammo from me or they want my time for free. Otherwise, they'd go to the store and buy it themselves. Sorry but I don't work for free.
Exactly! One takes appropriate precautions for these activities. Grandkids in restraints on a car ride, not cutting up vegatables on same surface one cut up raw chicken etc. No different for reloading, because the potential downside of faulty ammo being really bad one has to take an appropriate level of care. However unlike driving reloading is a lot less dependent on all the other crazy drivers.
Selling anything is always a different proposition than giving it away. Otherwise why does a call girl get arrested but a party girl just gets invited to lots of events.
I think the case where one might get vulnerable even if giving away ammo is someone who say works as a gunsmith or has an FFL and buys and sells firearms a bit. The recipient might argue that even though the ammo was "free" it was coming from someone who could be viewed as a professional and thus would have a greater expectation of being professional quality. Not a lot different than an auto mechanic helping you with your brakes and then something goes wrong. Not sure how that would fly in the courts but I would have more cause for concern if I was in that position.
Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.
Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.
Feedback page http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=RogerDat
Am I missing something here?? Cartridge cases?? Does someone selling me once fired brass need a license?? If I pick up a bucket of range brass do I need a license to sell it?
Last edited by jimlj; 11-20-2019 at 07:22 PM.
The way it was explained to me the critical issue is manufacturing or importing the product being sold. If I cast the bullets or assembled or imported the round, I need the license, but if I'm selling somebody else's cast bullets, I don't. I think the selling range brass is selling an already manufactured item (used, to boot).
In the action shooting sports, just about everybody loads their own, with maybe families being the exception where Husband/Dad loading for everybody. That being said, it's fairly common for folks to lend somebody ammo if they're short for the match. No sales, though.
I'm not interested in making ammo for other people. I'm willing to teach them to reload, if they have the interest, though.
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