Light loads causing difficult to open bolt? First time out with Ross 1905E

[uscra112]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.

[WILCO]

[uscra112]

You got it.

[WILCO]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.

For the record, I didn't catch that fact until it was pointed out.
Love learning and relearning.

[swheeler]

Neck sizing should cure this problem for you, a Lee collet neck sizer sounds to order. Even though this is a rimmed cartridge that is supposed to head space off the rim the chambers are large sized for extreme field conditions. Neck sizing will make you brass last longer by a large margin and allow you to head space off the shoulder like a rimless cartridge. As ShooterAz suggests drilling flash holes will help keep the shoulder where it should be.

This was posted by me before uscra112 ever rang in- THIS IS POST #8 in this thread

It has been common knowledge of handloaders for many many years that headspacing off the shoulder on RIMMED and BELTED cases promotes case life, accuracy. If you push the shoulder back say .020"(not that far out of liner with some full length dies)every time you FL size to load and the rimmed cartridge alread has .010" headspace, if you have enough pressure to expand the case from shoulder to bolt face- you have stretched that brass .030" it will soon seperate.

[uscra112]

*sigh* This has nothing to do with his apparent case-sticking problem.

[swheeler]

for the record, i didn't catch that fact until it was pointed out.
Love learning and relearning.

Read post #8! POSTED THE DAY BEFORE uscra112 even posted. I mean who can look at a big picture of case head stamped 303 BRITISH and say I didn't realize it was a rimmed case

[swheeler]

*sigh* This has nothing to do with his apparent case-sticking problem.

Sigh all you want, I'm not convinced of that. But lets just let the OP try his 5 fire formed cases and then we'll know. I take it you have never loaded for any belted cartridges either, or at least only a couple times before you had to buy new brass same as your 303. If you have a shoulder use it, if not you are stuck with a belt or a rim

[303Guy]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.

This is true but treat it as one would a rimless. Forget the rim, the case must headspace on the shoulder. With the primer protruding, this is not going to happen and the case is not fully fireformed.

Looking at those primer, that is quite a stout load for a 303 Brit. Don't look at the outer edge of the primer - that only gets squared off when the case sets back or the primers are softer. Look at how the primer has filled the firing pin indent. The problem could be a pressure wave that expands the neck and shoulder area. I have had full pressure loads that fill the firing pin indent as much as these if not more so from a gun with rust pitting in the neck area with not extraction difficulties. The necks do not expand into the (large) pits. Then again I have fired light, shotgun powder loads with light boolits in the same gun that hardly showed any firing pin indent filling at all yet were jammed tight into those neck rust pits!

A little trick on fire forming cases with moderate loads is to lightly lube the cartridges to be fired. This allows the neck and shoulder area to fill out forward while allowing the case body to progressively expand rearward to fully seat against the bolt face without drawing around the web area. Cases fireformed in this way will still have a nominal clearance due to springback. Even cases that are tight on closing will come out freely. With this method one can see how the striations on the case get progressively longer from the shoulder area where there are none, to the web area.

[M-Tecs]

First being rimmed or rimless has zero bearing on the OP's issue of the primer backing out. Shoulder setback is not an issue per the OP and it shouldn't be based on it being a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes is done for a variety of reasons of which shoulder setback in bottleneck case is just one. Wax bullet or blank use is another (been drilling flashholes since 1970 for this). Same for some drilling for better accuracy with Blackpowder (I don't believe after limited testing it but some do put great stock in it).

Headspacing off a rim or belt is the SAAMI standard for belted or rimmed cartridges, however, just like using SAAMI specs for bottleneck cases the SAAMI specs don't maximize case life or accuracy. Regardless if the case is a bottleneck, rimmed or belted case adjusting the sizing die to minimize shoulder setback is optimal.

All primers back out on firing. When the case does not reset the cause is simple. The pressure in the primer pocket is greater than the pressure of the case pushing back. This pressure/movement is normally referred to as bolt thrust.

This is just my opinion but I believe in bottleneck cases faster powders require more pressure to reseat primers. This is solely based on personal experience with light loads in a 30/30. My guess is that the pressure with fast powders the pressure curves between the primer and powder is such the case pressure dissipates before the primer pocket pressure dissipates???????

[swheeler]

303 I used the lightly oiled case trick on the 8x56R with 13. gr red dot to get cases formed-primers to reseated. I don't have neck dies for it so I just size about 3/4 of the neck. The dies Lee provide OVER size this case large amounts. I actually headspace off the shoulder on my 30/40 krag, 8x56R and the 7.62x54R all rimmed cartridges. I also headspace the 264 Win mag, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win off the shoulder, 458 uses the belt like it was designed. Thank you for chiming in.

[john.k]

note the headstamp...RP...notorious for cribbing the last microgram of brass by making rims way under spec........Headspace excessive by virtue of brass rim being a lot under spec thickness.........cure ,dont waste your money on Remington Peters ammo,buy PPU .

[swheeler]

note the headstamp...RP...notorious for cribbing the last microgram of brass by making rims way under spec........Headspace excessive by virtue of brass rim being a lot under spec thickness.........cure ,dont waste your money on Remington Peters ammo,buy PPU .

John I just went through my junk can and found some 303 Brit. tiny test sample but here's what I got....

R-P rim thickness .061"
HXP 70 .059"
HXP 71 .059"
VPT 40 .061"

[Multigunner]

Commercial sporting .303 cartridge case rims are within specs. Many Military .303 case rims are out of spec by being too thick.
Military rifles often have headspace on the loose end of maximum allowable headspace.
Older British .303 sporting rifles sometimes can not be used with military surplus .303 cartridges.

[swheeler]

Peregrine has been shooting PPU factory loaded 303 ammo and reports it works beautifully, smooth extraction, bolt just slides back slick as can be, I love it when a fine rifle shoots like it should. Hum I guess all the ringed chamber, it's a rimmed cartridge, blah-blah BS wasn't to be. Hopefully Peregrine will chime in!

[samari46]

Limit your ross to one brand of cases. Open up the necks with an 8mm a lyman M die. Resize your cases so that they give a crush fit in your rifles chamber. Try a few first before locking down the die ring. Sort of a cut and try approach to your problem. By crush fit I mean you'll actually feel the bolt close on the case. Some shooters do the same process with their 9.3x57mm Husky's. Neck up to 375 caliber, size for a crush fit in the 9.3x57 chamber no more primers sticking out the back end. And the 9.3x57 pressures run about 40K so is a fairly mild cartridge. muzzle velocity runs about 2000-2100 feet per second. Frank

[uscra112]

Easier said than done with his straight-pull Ross.

[swheeler]

I'm hoping he takes it out and bags a couple crows!

[Peregrine]

As swheeler has reported, PPU 180gr. SP's allowed this rifle to function flawlessly. Bolt would practically fall open, the rifle was a joy to shoot.
I only brought a box of 20, this was a quick experiment after a long weekend of other shooter/casting activities and I wish I had had more faith.

After confirming function I did a couple full mag dumps shooting as fast as I could work the action and get hits on steel. I got it pretty hot, all this shooting was offhand and between 50-200m but the rifle was hitting POA and with authority, PPU loads these all the way up!

The action very easy to work and crisp, virtually no force required to extract. Quite the contrast to my handloads!

I did not attempt to recover any of my brass from the snow, i'm going to shoot the ross again with more PPU to build some brass up that's been fire formed to this rifles chamber, then experiment with neck sizing and trying cast again. I'll all the brass when the snow melts.



I'm curious if I could take the assorted .303 brass I have, full length size it through my redding die, and load up some jacketed .303's replicate the success I had with the commercial loading. I'd have to size it again because I already expanded all the necks for cast. I'm going to have to go out and buy some .303 bullets, i'd be tempted to pull some from 7.62x39's but the Ross deserves better than cheap bimetal.

[swheeler]

I would be looking for the PPU brass when the snow melts, mixed brass is never the best choice for accuracy but I have used plenty of it! Now this is just me but I would pull down a PPU loaded round and weigh the powder charge, measure a bullet for diameter, COAL, and then chrono at least 2 rounds and record everything. Open up your favorite loading manual to 303 Brit, by using the powder charge and velocity you recorded you now have the approximate powder speed for 180 gr bullet of correct diameter and shape, now you can use published data and a chrony to duplicate the PPU ammo. When you get some more trigger time I look forward to a range report. When you start loading for accuracy with cast it will be fun I'm sure!