Brass, Citric Acid and Dawn, O MY!

[sniper]

My first experience with Citric Acid, Dawn and hot water was amazing! I have since heard caveats regarding Citric acid removing the zinc from brass, leaving it tinted pink and weakened, indicating necessary short cleaning times...maybe 1 hour max. (?)

I have also heard that Citric Acid "passivates" brass, retarding corrosion/darkening for a long while.

It seems to me that adding a layer wax of any type, no matter how light on brass would act as a lubricant, increasing pressure against bolt faces during firing, similar to lightly oiling cartridges for proof testing.

Somebody educate me, please!

[sparkyv]

That's what I use in my sonicator for ~20 minutes. Works like a champ. I'm doubtful that the pH of citric acid is enough to affect or passivate the brass. I have gotten some pink spotting in the past, but I just load 'em up and shoot 'em and repeat without issues. I don't lubricate my brass...can't help there.

[Pipefitter]

I use a generous teaspoon of lemishine (citric acid) to 2 quarts of distilled water and a good squirt of Dawn dish soap in an ultrasonic cleaner at 135*f for 8 minutes, followed by a rinse under running water in a strainer. Then take the extra time to tumble in corncob with some liquid wax. As long as you don't over do it with the citric acid or the time in the bath you shouldn't have the problem with "pink" brass.

[ShooterAZ]

I haven't had any problems with it either. A friend gifted me a 5 gallon bucket of once fired, but super dirty 45ACP (muddy and some tarnished). I sprayed all the mud off using a sifting screen, then Citric Acid (Lemishine) and dawn cleaned them right up, no problem. Once cleaned like this, all I do after is tumble in corn cob media & Dillon case polish.

[RedlegEd]

My first experience with Citric Acid, Dawn and hot water was amazing! I have since heard caveats regarding Citric acid removing the zinc from brass, leaving it tinted pink and weakened, indicating necessary short cleaning times...maybe 1 hour max. (?)

I have also heard that Citric Acid "passivates" brass, retarding corrosion/darkening for a long while.

It seems to me that adding a layer wax of any type, no matter how light on brass would act as a lubricant, increasing pressure against bolt faces during firing, similar to lightly oiling cartridges for proof testing.

Somebody educate me, please!

Hi sniper!
I can tell you what I do and my observations so consider the "education" for what it's worth. I do the same for both rifle and pistol brass. If the brass is range pick-up and/or kind of nasty, I'll do an initial wash in hot water, 1/2 tsp Lemi-shine (or citric acid,) and Dawn just to remove any mud, grass, dirt, etc. Once it's been cleaned and dry, I'll process the brass (size/decap, flare) then wet tumble in a Frankford Arsenal tumbler with SS pins, 1 tsp Lemi-shine, a squirt of Dawn, and a few drops of Auto Wash/Wax. I find the little bit of wax helps protect the brass from tarnishing. I'll let this run for about two hours, rinse well and dry in an old food dehydrator. I don't get pink brass and have never noticed any issues causing cases to fail to seal against the cylinder walls. I have noticed if you use too much Lemi-shine, the brass will take on a subdued copper look rather than bright brass or nickel. Hope this helps. Ed

[kevin c]

At two hours with two teaspoons of pure citric acid and two tablespoons of car wash and wax, mixed in very hot water, I haven't had any zinc leaching. I don't know about longer times (overnight with diluted white vinegar did sometimes get me pink brass). ETA: I found a post by a wiser head than mine noting the citric acid can give you pink brass.

The pure citric acid seems to leave a lot less residue inside the cases compared to Lemishine, IME. Car wash and wax can do that too, but I can eliminate that problem by thorough rinsing, while the Lemishine residue is harder to get rid of (I don't decap prior to cleaning and I don't use pins, which may contribute to what I see).

[MrWolf]

Yup, leaving it overnight can yield pink brass. Been there, done that. Good luck

[lefty o]

My first experience with Citric Acid, Dawn and hot water was amazing! I have since heard caveats regarding Citric acid removing the zinc from brass, leaving it tinted pink and weakened, indicating necessary short cleaning times...maybe 1 hour max. (?)

I have also heard that Citric Acid "passivates" brass, retarding corrosion/darkening for a long while.

It seems to me that adding a layer wax of any type, no matter how light on brass would act as a lubricant, increasing pressure against bolt faces during firing, similar to lightly oiling cartridges for proof testing.

Somebody educate me, please!

wax is not all that slick when it goes on in microns of thickness, as evidence i give you the fact that all factory ammo has a wax applied to the casings when manufactured.
as for citric acid, just dont over do it, i use a 38spcl case for a measure, and it is more than enough to do the job in a frankford rotary tumbler or any of the other similar sized ones.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I use a hot citric acid bath to clean heavily tarnished cases.
The only times I'd got the pink brass, was when the brass had some spots so tarnished it was black...and the only pink on the cases were the spots where the black tarnish was removed. I figured that any zinc depletion happened from the tarnish and not the the hot citric acid bath? But who knows, I usually recycle those.

[ioon44]

The brass I have picked up that was so tarnished it was black comes out pink, I have loaded and shot these and they seem to reload as many times as other brass.

[biffj]

I think you will find that oiling, waxing or otherwise lubing cases won't really add that much pressure to the bolt face. Calculate the theoretical bolt thrust based on the area of the cartridge case and the chamber pressure and then estimate what the reduction of this might be due to the brass case gripping the wall of the chamber. Even if the brass case grabs the chamber wall 100% the case itself will stretch to take up any headspace and bolt slop. It is likely that the case gripping the chamber walls reduces the bolt thrust by a very small amount but not a lot. We shot a lot of oiled cases vs unoiled for some bolt velocity testing in a rifle some years back and found any difference in velocity oiled wasn't really measureable. It fit into the variation found in the system for both unoiled and oiled cases. That tells me the difference is marginal for most of the stuff we shoot. I do think it could be a problem for artillery sized rounds but for rifle and pistol? not so much.

Frank

[Kevin Rohrer]

This has been discussed before. A teaspoon or two of Citric Acid and a squirt of Dawn mixed w/ water in a rotary tumbler w/ brass for 2-hours gets everything clean and shiny.

[mjwcaster]

I only citric acid wash for a few minutes, after hot water pre washing to clean out the debris.
I have gotten some pink cases.
I just assumed these were the nastiest, tarnished cases in the bunch.
Some of my brass is outdoor range pickup that may have been out in the mud who knows how long.
Since it is only a few cases in common calibers I toss them and any others that are really tarnished.

I have noticed that I get a significant amount of case mouth splitting on really tarnished cases, so now I just cull them.


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[Springfield0612]

All the wives tales of citric acid running your brass comes from the old timers who use vibratory tumblers and don't want to change because they are afraid of it. DO your research, come to your own conclusions, and do what works for you.

Just remember that lead is not water soluble, but lead particles in dust can be absorbed through your mucous membranes in your eyes, nose, mouth, and lungs.

[EMC45]

My process with lemon juice and Dawn (both WalMart Great Value brand) and scalding hot water have always resulted in super shiny cases and never any pink ones.

[LenH]

I've used lemon juice, Lemi-Shine and plain ole citric acid, hot water and a drop of whatever dish soap my darlin wife gets. I have never left brass in the solution more than 20 or 30 minutes.
The the brass are rinsed 3 or 4 times and dumped on a towel to dry. After they dry I run them through corn cob media with some Nufinish or Dillon brass cleaner. Never a problem
with pink brass.

[lightman]

I've dropped the Dawn in favor of automotive wash and wax. This leaves a film that keeps the super clean brass from tarnishing as quickly.

[randyrat]

Shooting 45ACP a lot, I don't have time nor the patients to tumble brass. Using Citric Acid and a bit of Dawn soap in hot water, rinse real good and then lay the Brass out to dry thoroughly works great and saves me time. I process about 500-1000 cases at a time.
I've not noticed any deterioration of my 45 ACP brass, in which, I use over and over and over
Rifle brass is usually tumbled, because the amount is much less.

Citric acid is the best thing since Apple pie.

[fatelk]

I haven't figured out why it happened, but I currently have about 1500 rounds of .223 ammo that I loaded about a year ago, that I need to pull down. Many of the necks are splitting, and those that haven't split before firing, all crack upon firing. The only difference with these has been stainless tumbling with Dawn and Lemishine. Did I use too much Lemishine, or tumble them too long? I don't know, but I have a lot of work ahead of me. I want to believe that it wasn't the tumbling, but I can't figure it out. It's made me nervous about SS tumbling.

[kevin c]

I just remembered some pink brass I got with citric acid. I'm pretty sure it happened in cases that didn't just have heavy tarnish on an otherwise intact case exterior, but were green with corrosion, or were heavily scratched outside. Some chemical, structural or passivation change?