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Thread: Question about bag vs possession limits

  1. #21
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    Here you can not have any game left over from the year before unless it is PROCESSED. Which means it has to be turned into something else. Hamberger, sausage....... If it is still in the legal taken way, you can be charged if the fish has to be left with the skin on. Game has to be left with a head, wing, or leg on if there are multi species like birds. I can't remember what they charge you with if you do have game left over with.

  2. #22
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    This is how the state of Texas defines possession limit

    Possession limit (hunters)
    The maximum number of any animal or bird that may be possessed by any person at any place. This limit only ceases when a bird or animal is legally finally processed or reaches its final destination. Final processing may only occur at final destination or cold storage facility.
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  3. #23
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    It's REAL simple - when you reach you daily bag limit, you stop hunting for the day. When you reach your possession limit, you stop hunting for the season.

    If you have full, unprocessed carcasses in your freezer that exceed the number you may possess for the season, I have to wonder why you would want more?

    If you're riding down the road with 27 dead deer on the back of your truck, that might be of some concern to a game warden.
    I have NEVER met a game warden that cares, even a little bit, about how much deer meat, cleaned fish, fully dressed pheasant or whatever......you have in you freezer.

    When you reach your season's limit - YOU STOP.
    See how easy that is ?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    What constitutes an animal for the purpose of determining a limit? A freshly killed deer is undoubtedly a deer. A field dressed deer is a deer. Ground venison wrapped in freezer paper and in a freezer, probably isn't identifiable as a particular deer at that point.

    I don't think game wardens are interested in how much venison, rabbit or other meat someone has in their basement freezer.
    Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.
    You must live in a very draconian state.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    You must live in a very draconian state.
    North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Minnesota all use DNA testing and freezer checks when abuse is suspected. Frankly I would be surprised if all states don't. While is it true that Game wardens currently have more power than most LE that power was limited in the late 80's or 90's. If I remember correctly that was by the SCOTUS. In the past game wardens would be used to enter homes to do a game checks than if drugs were observed the game warden would hold the evidence and people until a warrant for the regular LE was issued.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  7. #27
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    And don't keep venison in your freezer for 10 years. A long time ago when I was growing up Michigan had a law that you had to consume your deer entirely within 60 days of the end of the season. This was in the late 50's. I am suspicious that they have not repealed that law. Also suspicious that other states have similar laws. Venison in the freezer in July may have been poached.

  8. #28
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    To me processed would be in a state ready to be cooked ?
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

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  9. #29
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    It used to be here that you could have two does or a buck and a doe daily from the start of bow season to the end of January. And there were people that abused that. From October 15 to January 31 is a lot of days, and should you be able to get the daily limit I'd suspect that you would need a commercial walk in freezer.
    I'd generally get two deer early during gun season and wait for a big one for the rest of the season. Sometimes it was good, sometimes not.....
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.
    Define "routinely".

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    Define "routinely".
    As I CLEARLY stated when they suspect abuse. Check out any of the news reports when people are caught with large amounts over the daily limit. When that happens they tend to do a home freezer inspection.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
    I'm confused again. What do you mean by processed? If I've dressed them, cut them up, and frozen them in neat little packages, is that Ok? It's not like I have intact birds, feathers and all.

    Petrol & Powder, not to be a wiseguy, but I can definitely see a need for more than 4 pheasants. That's like 2 meals. 27 deer is something else altogether.
    Just because you "see a need" for more than 4 pheasants doesn't mean you get to make your own laws.
    I can "see a need" to pay less income tax but that doesn't mean I'm special.

    What is your total limit for the season?
    4 Pheasants total per hunter for the entire season OR 4 whole, unprocessed Pheasants at some location other than the ultimate destination?

    If the daily limit is 2 birds per person and 4 in your possession before you process them, then each hunter can take 4 birds before they must take them home and process them. I don't know the NY limit, if that 4 bird limit only applies to unprocessed birds, then you can clean those birds, put them in your house and go back hunting again. If that 4 bird limit is the total limit for the season - you get your 4 birds and you are DONE for the season. If you don't like that limit, lobby your legislature or move to a state with limits you like.

    You don't get to legally take more birds just because you disagree with the law.

  13. #33
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    the thing about not having huge possession limits, it ideally helps to deter people from going out shooting their limit, going home and putting them in the freezer, then going out and shooting another limit, etc, etc. most that get caught with possession limits are those that get caught grossly exceeding bag limits, or they had bragged to people about how many they have in the freezer and were reported. really two choices here, obey limits so that there remains good huntable and fishable populations of animals in the future, or care only about yourself and be a poacher.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    As I CLEARLY stated when they suspect abuse. Check out any of the news reports when people are caught with large amounts over the daily limit. When that happens they tend to do a home freezer inspection.
    In my area I can recall 3 cases in the last 40 years in which search warrants were executed for potential game violations.
    One was a criminal group involved in a multitude of felonies and one of the schemes was poaching bear and selling the gall bladders to Asian buyers
    One was a company systematically killing protected birds of prey
    and one was a restaurant serving uninspected wild game (that was more of a health code violation than a game violation)
    NONE of the cases involved search warrants because Billy Bob had too many deer in his freezer.

    I can't speak for Minnesota but game violations in Virginia are about on par with parking violations and overdue library books. Search warrants for game violations are not "routine".

  15. #35
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    The definition of possession varies from state to state and even within the state depending on species.

    I will use North Dakota as an example since they recently changed the law to not include game at home in the freezer except for waterfowl.

    https://gf.nd.gov/fishing/regulations-guide
    The daily creel limit is defined as the maximum number of legally taken fish (by species) that may be harvested from midnight to midnight. No individual may harvest or possess more than North Dakota’s daily limit of fish while on the water, ice, or actively engaged in any manner of fishing.

    The possession limit is defined as the maximum number of legally taken fish (by species) that an individual may have in their actual possession during any phase of any single fishing trip of more than one day. At no time may an individual transport more than a possession limit without written approval of the Game and Fish director.

    The storage limit at one’s residence is unlimited.


    https://gf.nd.gov/regulations/small-combined#upland

    Daily Bag Limit” (Daily Limit) is the maximum number of a particular game that one hunter, legally licensed by this state, may take or kill during a single hunting day, within the boundaries of this state.

    “Possession Limit” is the maximum number of a particular game species that a hunter, legally licensed by this state, may have in his/her actual possession during any phase of any single hunting trip, venture, or expedition of more than one day. No more than one daily limit may be taken on any one day. The possession limit at one’s personal permanent residence, except for waterfowl and migratory game birds, is not limited.

    “Possession Limit for Waterfowl and Migratory Game Birds” is the maximum number of migratory game birds of a single species or a combination of species permitted to be possessed by any one person when lawfully taken in the United States in any one specified geographic area (typically a state, Indian reservation or a hunting unit or zone within a state) for which a possession limit is prescribed.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-15-2019 at 08:45 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    In my area I can recall 3 cases in the last 40 years in which search warrants were executed for potential game violations.
    One was a criminal group involved in a multitude of felonies and one of the schemes was poaching bear and selling the gall bladders to Asian buyers
    One was a company systematically killing protected birds of prey
    and one was a restaurant serving uninspected wild game (that was more of a health code violation than a game violation)
    NONE of the cases involved search warrants because Billy Bob had too many deer in his freezer.

    I can't speak for Minnesota but game violations in Virginia are about on par with parking violations and overdue library books. Search warrants for game violations are not "routine".
    Game wardens don't need a warrant to do a freezer inspection in some states.


    this is both political, and legal... so I am posting on the same topic in both places.

    Be aware that you have no rights of privacy in the world of Conservation Officers.

    It varies from state to state, and I am compiling a complete list of states in which Game Wardens can:

    "34. Examine, without a warrant as provided by law, any vehicle, creel, land or water conveyance, fish box, cooler, game bag or any other place where evidence of a crime may be hidden or transported whenever there is reason to believe that a violation of state law has been committed."


    They have the "right" to be on your private property, without warrant on suspicion of ANY crime. They have the right to inspect ANY container, regardless of it's location (for instance a freezer in your basement, whether or not that freezer exists).

    This is not conspiracy theory. This is fact.

    "Search with or without Warrant

    The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution."
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-15-2019 at 08:51 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  17. #37
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    Well in my state game wardens have SOME LIMITED authority to make warrantless searches BUT that authority doesn't extend to residences:

    Virginia code § 29.1-208. Searches and seizures.


    All conservation police officers are vested with the authority to search any person arrested as provided in § 29.1-205 together with any box, can, package, barrel or other container, hunting bag, coat, suit, trunk, grip, satchel or fish basket carried by, in the possession of, or belonging to such person. Conservation police officers shall also have the authority, immediately subsequent to such arrest, to enter and search any refrigerator, building, vehicle, or other place in which the officer making the search has reasonable ground to believe that the person arrested has concealed or placed any wild bird, wild animal or fish, which will furnish evidence of a violation of the hunting, trapping and inland fish laws. Such a search may be made without a warrant, except that a dwelling may not be searched without a warrant. Should any container as described in this section reveal any wild bird, wild animal or fish, or any part thereof, which has been illegally taken, possessed, sold, purchased or transported, the conservation police officer shall seize and hold as evidence the container, together with such wild bird, wild animal or fish, and any unlawful gun, net, or other device of any kind for taking wild birds, wild animals or fish which he may find.


    SO, if that freezer is in your home, they NEED A WARRANT.
    AND- the exceptions to the warrant requirement are contingent on an arrest.

    https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/...ction29.1-208/
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 11-15-2019 at 08:54 PM.

  18. #38
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    It must be a Minnesota thing, because our game wardens are blatant here. I can't think of a single hunter who HASN'T had an officer walk into their house and check the freezer. It's a lot better now, they at least have to wear orange during deer season. Before they would wear their brown coats and watch from a tree stand. The old "kill site" transportation law got more than a few poor hunters. I haven't had it happen to myself yet, but as a kid we had a warden show up out of the blue. He searched the house, found nothing, and went on his way.

    One story my dad still tells to this day was ice fishing in a shack. Me and my brother were very young, maybe 4 and 6. We could have 2 lines down, so there were 6 down total. Nothing was happening, so my brother and I ran out the door to go play. Sitting on his snowmobile was the game warden, who quickly ran in the door without knocking. At the time an "attended" line was in direct visual sight, tip ups were not even legal. My dad got cited for 4 extra lines down that day.

    Long story short, game wardens can be jerks, are allowed to go far beyond law enforcement, and unfortunately most in MN are jerks. This is a huge contradiction to law enforcement which are mostly good, and do follow laws as intended.

    As for possession limit, it could vary by state. Here, it's just the maximum number you can have. You can eat them, but you can't process (turn into steaks, sausage, brats, etc.) them and continue to hunt. I don't know what Petrol & Powder is going on about. There is no season limit on birds (with a few exception like turkey and swan). Pheasants, ducks, geese, grouse, etc. only have a daily and possession limits. A possession limit is NOT a yearly limit.

    Edit: A quick search has not turned up any recent change. As far as I'm aware, a MNDNR officer may enter a residence without a warrant, and they certainly have used that excuse plenty.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 11-15-2019 at 08:54 PM.

  19. #39
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    Petrol and Powder, I don't like your tone.

    I started this thread to ask a simple question. I expressed an opinion that I thought the possession limit seemed small give what a daily bag limit was, considering the length of the season. Just because I expressed that opinion, I am NOT implying that I feel I have the right to exceed any limits set by law. Quite the contrary, I was looking for clarification of something I was confused about so that I would NOT be in violation of the law.

    Thanks for the lecture.

  20. #40
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    While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.

    I've heard the myths about the "all powerful game warden" my entire life. The stories all revolve around the misconception that game wardens are somehow above the 4th amendment by virtue of their status as game wardens.

    By the nature of their work, game wardens often must operate in remote locations and deal with highly mobile suspects. To answer those issues, most states give wardens greater leeway in search and seizure powers IN THE FIELD.
    No state gives them carte blanche to enter HOMES without a search warrant.

    Stories about, "I heard about a guy who's house was searched by game wardens without a warrant" are about as credible as the current forth party hearsay being submitted in the impeachment hearings.

    Cue REO Speedwagon's, " heard it from a friend who.....heard it from a friend who.....heard it from another......"
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 11-15-2019 at 09:28 PM.

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