Just shot my own casts

[kmw1954]

My venture into casting Boolits began with a Lee 2cavity 356-102-R1 and plain old COWW's. These are dropping right around the 104.5gr mark +/- .6gr and the diameter seems to be steady at round .3575 to.358.

When I first started loading these I was getting a small lead shaving at the mouth of the case and when I pulled one apart I could see it went the entire circumference of the bullet and all the way down to the base. So at this point I still do not know if it was all shavings or also some swaging as these first tries were not sized but I get a feeling it was some of both. I do have a topic here on the forum about this.

Before I shot any I was able to get a Lee pass thru Sizer to size these to .356" which is what the samples I tried were and those shot very well. After sizing the next batch and then re-tumble lubing them I didn't see any signs of shaving. So I loaded up about 40 of these using AA#2 @ 2.8gr.

Range report; not so hot. I think it was partly because I haven't been feeling well the past week and after I started shooting I got tired quickly and was also having a hard time focusing and seeing the sights. But they all went boom and they all hit within a 6" circle at 10 yards. Also this was at our old indoor range and the lighting is not the best. I also noticed that these seemed to be a bit more smoky then the previous loads I shot but then those were also outside.

Shot these from 2 different guns. A Witness Pavona and a S&W EZ. The witness ate them all up while the EZ had some failure to feed and failure to fully chamber. Was also stove piping the last round in the EZ and that happened with both mags. We seen this with factory loads as well when we first received the gun and then with my reloads it seemed to go away.

Now I may try to load up a few more and load them down to 2.6" and see what happens.

[Winger Ed.]

The shaving sounds like there wasn't quite enough of a flare on the case mouth before boolit seating.

If your powder charge is right for a full pressure load, a bit more crimp might boost the pressure a little to prevent the stove pipe jam.
Or, maybe the gun is dirty or has a burr, and there is resistance in the slide travel.

Autos don't like reduced loads unless you also reduce the spring too.

[kmw1954]

The shaving sounds like there wasn't quite enough of a flare on the case mouth before boolit seating.

If your powder charge is right for a full pressure load, a bit more crimp might boost the pressure a little to prevent the stove pipe jam..

As was discussed in the loading thread for this the Flare was adjusted as large as it would go. So who knows, maybe it is the die but the issue went away as soon as I started to size the Boolits.

This issue with the stove pipe on the last round is well documented as a flaw with this gun on any of the forums. What seems to be happening is that the second to the last round when discharges/ejected is pulling the last round out with it. The stove pipe is always with the projectile facing up, never facing down and is always the very last round.

[JBinMN]

I am not sure, since I did not see anywhere what caliber you are using, but I am going to make the assumption you are shooting these in a .380 ACP.

How did you come up with a load of 2.8 of AA#2 for these loads?

In doing some research I am finding that with a .380 with a 100 gr. boolit/bullet, pushed by AA#2, the recommended MAX load is 3.6 grains. 10% of that would be 3.2 grains as a Start load. ( Even if you were using a 9mm with that boolit the Max load would be around 4.4gr. or so with a Start load about 3.9 or 4.0 grains)

Sources for info above:http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con....0-Web-REV.pdf

and: http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/re...okup-by-powder

So, what I am saying is that you are lower than those Start loads with your using 2.8 grains & even moving to 2.6 grains. That might be something to consider. If you are using either a .380 ACP or a 9MM, it appears you are certainly in the "reduced load" range for both of those calibers using AA#2 powder to load the 102 gr. boolit.

I realize that you say they are at 104.5 +/- .6 grains, but the actual grain weight is not that far from your 102 mold (it is likely that the alloy you used is not the same as the alloy Lee used to set the molds boolit weight so your boolits weigh more than the mold specified weight.), and the data is for 100 gr., so knowing that it is best to not use the load data for a lesser amount in grains of boolit/bullet for a boolit/bullet that is heavier, the weight of 104 +/- .6, being so close to the data for 100 gr. and Starting LOW & working up with that close of a range in grains for that weight boolit should still be safe. You just have to realize that the MAX would be reduced for a heavier boolit/bullet & reduce the Max accordingly from the 3.6 gr. of AA#2 down to around 3.5 or less in this situation.Having a chronograph would certainly be helpful as well in this case, but you should be fine staying below 3.5 grains anyway.

I am not telling you what to do, but offering up what I might do with my .380 ACP if I was to use AA#2, and you can consider it. ( I do have the same boolit mold & a .380 & a 9mm, so I could be doing the test to find out what happens, but that would mean I was testing for my 380 & not yours & my results might not be the same for you as was for me. I don't recall right now without going to check to see if I have any AA#2 though.)

What "I" would do is make up 10 rounds each of that same boolit, using a Start load of 3.1 or 3.2 grains, then progressing up I would make ten more rounds of each tenth of a grain in steps. I.E. - 10 of 3.1, 10 of 3.2, 10 of 3.3, 10 of 3.4 and probably stop there, giving my self some room of .1 or .2 grains away from the MAX load recommended for a 100gr boolit/bullet. Since I Do have a chrony, I would shoot them thru that chrony to see where I was in FPS as compared to the FPS that is stated in the manuals for that powder/projectile type, etc..
If I was exceeding the MAX velocity they show in the manual, I would probably stop there so as to not exceed pressure as "velocity = pressure" & going over velocity in the manual means I am going over pressure for what they recommend for the MAX load.

So either way, with or without a chrony, I should be staying below MAX load with stopping at 3.4 grains, and checking the accuracy of each string of ten in tenths of a grain( I would shoot from a rest or sandbags for stability, BTW) to try to find the most accurate weight of AA#2 for each handgun.

Then I would write those loads down & pick the best two & then load up about 25 of each of the best 2 in accuracy & re-shoot them to see which I would think is the best of the 2 & choose the best one as my load for that round & that powder in whichever handgun I was using.

I would do all of that making sure I was in the recommended range of load, before I would be concerned with how the handgun reacted as far as malfunctions or not & then make note of at what weight of powder any malfunctions happen to try to see if it is the powder creating the malfunction or the powder possibly contributing to another or more than one possibility for malfunction. If No malfunctions at any place in the range, that would be even better.

Basically I am saying that until you are in what would most likely be considered a good " load range" for that powder & boolit & not using what looks like reduced loads, I can't really offer much more in what I would do to make things better. Perhaps others can help out thru their experience, but I find it easier for me, to find out things by making sure I am doing what is right at each step of reloading all thru to the shooting of those rounds and making sure I am not doing something along the steps of reloading to create issues.

Well, That is about all I can say to try to help out for now. I am thinking that you are using reduced loads & that could be part of why you are not in an accurate "node" , as well as maybe contributing to any other issues you might be having. Heck, you might even find that you are able to reduce the malfunction of the last round stove-piping by increasing the powder weight.. ??

G'Luck! & I hope I might have helped in some way.
I am sure others can come up with other things to add, but for me, I would start in the range of recommended powder weight & load range first, then work on reduced loads if that was what I was out to do. Then I would know what happens with recommended loads & any issues from reduced loads I get would likely be due to using reduced loads & work on what to do then.

BTW - (Note- If you have already done the above with the normal range, then good. You can then disregard what is above & I am unable to help you further than what I have already written above as I do not have experience with reduced loads using AA#2 & those calibers & boolits. I was just going with an assumption that you may not have known you were in a reduced range of loads for that weight powder & boolit for those firearms. )

[charlie b]

Do you have any leading in the barrel? Grey streaks or grey deposits next to the rifling? I only ask cause I have had some bad experiences with tumble lubed bullets.

[kmw1954]

JB, You are correct in assuming these are for the 380 I've been discussing. Here is some history and background on this loading.

Before I started casting I was loading 100gr plated Xtreme with the AA#2 and Western lists a load for the 100gr plated at 2.7 - 3.2 depending on which bullet is used. I had worked this load up to 3.0gr and it was very good in both guns I have. So after loading up a couple dummies with the cast I measured and was able to determine that the final seating depth was very close to the same. So going back to the oft used expression to load Plated bullets to cast load data and seeing as I could not find 105gr or even 100gr cast lead data I used the plated data.

After firing these samples I was under the impression that these were still pretty stout load by the way the gun was recoiling unless that was just me being still under the weather a little bit. The Witness Pavona did very well with these loads with no malfunctions. It is the EZ that is struggling. Some of the failure to feed the round was hanging up inside the magazine before it even got near the loading ramp. I didn't experience any of this with the loading I did with the sample bullets I received and they were loaded the same way on the same press with the same dies. I was very happy with the results from that loading which is why I bought this mold.


Charlie B I haven't had a chance to look yet but I will try to do that today and will post back what I find. With the sample bullets I received and shot I didn't see any leading in either gun and that was after about 100 rounds.

[charlie b]

You say sample bullets. Did someone cast them for you to try? Were they loaded by you or did you receive them as loaded cartridges? You indicated that they shot well and your cast ones do not. Are yours prepared the same as the samples? Same alloy, same heat treat (if any), same sizing, same lube, etc, etc? Cast bullets can vary a lot based on those factors as well as variances in molds.

[kmw1954]

The sample bullets that I received were cast by someone else and were loaded by me.. At that time I had received 4 or 5 different sample types from different forum members to try out. Of those there were 3 different bullet profiles and weights. 3 Shot well and 2 did not so I concentrated on the ones that did. The one sample of the 356-102 that I received over 200 of I was able to load them up with two different powders and both did well.

After buying the mold I was again in contact with the member that sent me those samples and did my best to recreate what he had done. Biggest difference was he used range scrap lead and I used COWW's. Otherwise they are sized the same and the tumble lube is the same recipe.

But once again let me remind that at this time and yesterdays range visit I physically am not feeling 100% because of a cold/flu bug so that kind of effected everything I shot yesterday.

[kmw1954]

Do you have any leading in the barrel? Grey streaks or grey deposits next to the rifling? I only ask cause I have had some bad experiences with tumble lubed bullets.

Charlie B I am happy to report that I just took down both pistols and the barrels of both are very clean.

Just also realized that these bullets that I am using are not a Tumble Lube design and do have a large lube groove if that is what you are referring to. the Lube itself in the 45-45-10

[charlie b]

Thanks, just wasn't sure of everything. So you are basically using the same bullets and same powder load as before.

As long as you are not leading the barrel then the lube should be fine at the ranges you are shooting.

I'd shoot some more when you are feeling better before making any changes.