Trouble With A CZ 527

[Three44s]

Recently I acquired a CZ 527 in 204 Ruger. Since 2005 I have owned one in 223 so I am fairly familiar with the model.

I am familiar with this 204 since I know the prior owner well. It has been a lights out shooter since it’s first owner bought it in early ‘05.

It was so for me until I began re-floating the barrel. I realize that some rifles shoot better with some fore end pressure but I took a chance. The previous (and first) owner had floated the barrel but not entirely and it was still riding at the tip and on one side.

I am used to the 204 factory Hornady ammo out shooting handloads but I am determined to bring this rifle to “heel” as to handload accuracy. As I improved the flotation of the barrel hand load accuracy deteriorated.

I thought the barrel probably was dirty so this AM I cleaned it.

After cleaning I began studying the barrel clearance and saw something I had never seen before.

As I flexed the wooden stock at the tip I could see that the wood stock was flexing all the way into the MAGAZINE area. I placed my finger tips on the front of the receiver at it’s sides and confirmed much to my amazement that yes .... the front of the receiver was bobbing up and down several thousandths.

Both action screws were tight, I got just a wee bit more rotation on the front screw but not enough to stop the objectionable movement.

I knew I did not have a shorter screw to replace what seemed a factory screw that is too long nor did I have a washer narrow enough to fit directly under the screw head as the recess just a hair larger than the screw head. Since the rifle is made in the Republic of Chech (sp) I am assuming it’s a metric screw.

At our farm shop I figured I had some flat washers that could act as a spacer that could be temporarily used to shim the lower metal far enough away from the bottom of the stock to allow the front action screw to tighten up.

So after a brief search I located them and placed one between the top side of the bottom metal and the underside of the stock. I got the stock tightened up well and tried the flex test.

Success! The forward action screw now tightens up as it should as that the receiver is fully seated in it’s stock and the rifle is back to driving tacks! I ran a series of test loads finished with two groups at .1 gr less than max and max in the sub 2 the tenths range with Reloder 15 and CCI 450 primers.

Overhauling that screw or buying a new slightly shorter one is in the near term and perhaps a glass bedding of the action is in the longer term. But right now my home grown coyotes are probably wondering why their paws are more itchy.

Best regards



Three44s

[NSB]

As I improved the flotation of the barrel hand load accuracy deteriorated.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[cwlongshot]

I have repeatedly read that these rifles “need” to be pillar bedded.

I dont have one. But I have a good friend who has two and I have shot them quite a bit esp his 223. I like them allot and I have a 527 American Varmint Grendel on my short list. A 223 would probably make more sense for me But I would sell off my MVP 223 to make room. But that Mossy is a 1/2 MOA gun. I just like the CZ better... Hard to justify.

Good catch. Bottomed screws have popped up on more than a few rifles!

I have a Howa mini in Grendel thats also capable of sub MOA accuracy. I do like that one alot.

When those Grendels where first released I had one in my hands. I could not justify it. But it took allot of doing to Even put it down.

I would pillar bed then glass bed the tang and recoil lug and shoot it again. You can always go back and add tip support afterwards.

My Howa is a skinny barrel. Its fully floated. A truck could drive thru most of the barrel channel. Target above is AR-Comp & a Sierra 120g @ 2550fps out to 100yards shot last weekend.

Good luck!

[Petrol & Powder]

It sounds like shortening that screw is the way to go.

[McFred]

Glad you got it running well. Don't bother sourcing a replacement screw, just shorten the factory one if you're not going to do an entire bedding job.

I've had a couple 527s. Seems that the wood is a bit generously inletted for an otherwise flat-bottomed receiver and all things being proportional, the wood gets a bit thin in places all contributing to some movement of the barreled action. A little opening of the barrel channel, where neccessary, and some bedding compound either end of the receiver seems to stiffen things up.

[Three44s]

As I improved the flotation of the barrel hand load accuracy deteriorated.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The only load it shot well was the Hornady factory 32 gr V Max. Even handloads using the same bullet and casing was less than stellar.

But read all the way through. My very first set of handloads are now printing sub 2 tenths. Right in there with it’s favorite factory load.

Best regards

Three44s

[Three44s]

cwlongshot,

Good point on the pillars then glass bedding. I had not considered the pillars before for this one.

Both my CZ 527’s are the skinny Americans. I bought my first in 223 back in ‘05. It has evaded my efforts to make it a one hole rifle like the 204 my friend bought has been. It killed plenty of coyotes to be sure but while I love the rifle it is tight groups that really yanks my chain!

At the time my friend bought his 204 I was reluctant to go with the cartridge because it was so new. The cheap and abundant brass for 223 pulled me in that direction. Later as the realization of just how effective the 204 is brought me to build a SA on a Savage Bolt Gun in the cartridge.

The Savage began as a varmint barrel and as my arms starting to stretch I tracked down a sporter barrel instead. Also I installed a target accutrigger and matching sear along the way.

I lost a bit on group size going to the lighter barrel but it made a lot better tractor rifle. At 8 oz. on a farm I realized that 14 oz was a better trigger setting for such an environment.

I know how you feel about these guns. Every now and then they adopt you! I have guns that tried to make me cut loose with the green and yet I resisted and they still send messages to me from their current residences.

Best regards

Three44s

[Tripplebeards]

25 years ago I read way Too much about floating my barrels. I free Floated a few barrels and acraglass bedded the actions an inch and a half in front of the tang. Some shrunk groups and some opened horribly. I found a done properly with the best hand loads I was getting .5 inch groups at 100 yards if I floated and needed properly and the rifle liked what I did. The ones that didn’t either changed over to an HS precision sock with full length aluminum Bedding block and then found my same .5” group loads would shoot cloverleaves. Others I went through and took some business cards and slid them under the front of the barrel upon an inch back is pressure points after I Accra glassed bedded them and floated the barrel and found the shot tighter groups still. Well I wasn’t going to run around with a gun with pieces of cardboard jammed in front of the stock in the barrel so I ended up glass in the complete barrel chamber and action on one of the guns literally gluing The action to the stock and didn’t release it. That gun shot lights out. It was an old Winchester M 1917 with optics and at Timney trigger. I have since put it back to original. I’ve learned lately with synthetic stocks that if I thought the barrels and I can even do a sloppy job bedding the tang area they shoot lights out compared to how they Come from the factory. The betting job just doesn’t even have to look good as long as it holds everything in place. I was running out of Acra glass and slapped a little in my savage 220 stock in front and the rear or the tang. It shrunk my groups from 2.5” to 3 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Same with my Ruger 7744. I just have to drill a bunch a little holes in every different direction to lock the Acraglass in place. What Ive found through the years of doing so is most of my rifles shoot better after its barrel is floated and bedded. When I buy a brand new gun it normally gets done before I go out and shoot it now. I’ve never been brave enough to pillar bed a rifle yet and probably won’t as I figure I’m gonna drill holes too big in my stock and screw it up. Acraglass takes all of a couple minutes to apply once everything has release agent on it and you’re done.

[Three44s]

It sounds like shortening that screw is the way to go.

Yes it would seem so. I have to ID what thread it is. I do have some metric dies if it is metric and certainly English tools if is that.

I also have to determine if it is running out of thread or bottoming out up in the receiver.

The other option would be to track down a washer the will fit under the head of the screw. It is a small space as to the outer circumference machined into the bottom metal.

Best regards

Three44s

[Three44s]

Glad you got it running well. Don't bother sourcing a replacement screw, just shorten the factory one if you're not going to do an entire bedding job.

I've had a couple 527s. Seems that the wood is a bit generously inletted for an otherwise flat-bottomed receiver and all things being proportional, the wood gets a bit thin in places all contributing to some movement of the barreled action. A little opening of the barrel channel, where neccessary, and some bedding compound either end of the receiver seems to stiffen things up.

After this kurfuffle with the CZ in 204 I am thinking about my 223 in a 527. I think there are some diamonds lurking around I just have not found yet!

Thanks

Best regards

Three44s

[Three44s]

Tripplebeards,

I have not glass bedded a firearm yet. I suppose I ought to pick a beater rifle and do one to make me feel better about tackling a nice one. Gluing a rifle in is not pretty but going easy is going to add stability and one can always add bedding after sanding the first layer to scarify to aid in adhesion of one layer to another.

Great points, thank you

Three44s

[Petrol & Powder]

Yes it would seem so. I have to ID what thread it is. I do have some metric dies if it is metric and certainly English tools if is that.

I also have to determine if it is running out of thread or bottoming out up in the receiver.

The other option would be to track down a washer the will fit under the head of the screw. It is a small space as to the outer circumference machined into the bottom metal.

Best regards

Three44s

if the screw itself is bottoming out in the receiver, shortening the screw is the cheapest and easiest method to fix that problem. If you're worried about damaging the threads you can find a nut that fits the threads and run it all the way down on the threads BEFORE you start filing the end of the screw. Then when you are done, you unthread that nut and it will straighten out minor imperfections as it comes off the screw. Clamping the screw (with the nut on it) between two pieces of soft wood and putting the whole thing in a vice is the way to go.

If you're running out of threads and the shank is stopping the screw from going deep enough, now you need a washer, a die or just another screw. I'm not telling you something you don't already know.

I would hold off pillar bedding that action until I figured out the screw issue. You may be able to get by cheap and have a great shooting rifle.

Good Luck

[Tripplebeards]

Tripplebeards,

I have not glass bedded a firearm yet. I suppose I ought to pick a beater rifle and do one to make me feel better about tackling a nice one. Gluing a rifle in is not pretty but going easy is going to add stability and one can always add bedding after sanding the first layer to scarify to aid in adhesion of one layer to another.

Great points, thank you

Three44s

Yeah my first one made me nervous to But I already had an HS precision stock on order for it so I figured if I buggered it up I wouldn’t care. The release agent that comes with it I’m not a big fan but it works. I started using Johnson’s paste wax on top of The release agent or just Johnson’s paste wax by itself with a couple of coats and the action releases way easier from the stock. That’s what I used on my Ruger 7744 and did some pictures on a post here of it. Took it from shooting 2 1/2 inch groups at best at 100 yards with cast to shrinking my best groups to a .6” and a .8” group with two different alloys and loads.

[Three44s]

Petrol & Powder,

I figured I have to diagnose which problem I have first. Then get a handle on what the screw is, metric vs English. The running and repairing of threads is something we do in the course of farm work so that’s not something new to us.

I will take my time with this and do some more inquiry about what is the best long term strategy about pillars, bedding etc.

Right now with just my temporary fix this rifle is shooting lights out so I am in a very good place already, no need to rush anything. After cleaning the barrel and placing the barreled action back in the stock my CZ put one fouling shot 2” low at 100 and the next two in the same slightly oblong hole.

The next three rounds were a group of about .6” at .2 gr. higher powder charge. The next two batches were three shots .2 gr higher and .1 gr higher (Max) and those were each a one hole tiny little clover leaf. Two three shot groups either of which I can cover with less than my little finger nail.

Color me happy!

Thanks and best regards

Three44s

[Three44s]

Tripplebeards,

That is a very good result for your 44mag bolt gun. I am impressed!

Do you use Acura glass?

I have worked with Devcon lately for repairing plastics in the near past. I think I have heard of it being used in bedding jobs as well. Devcon steel perhaps?

Best regards and thanks

Three44s

[Tripplebeards]

Brownells acraglass is all I’ve ever used. I know I did a post here on it about two years ago showing how I did it with photographs on my 77/44.

[Three44s]

YouTube is our friend when it comes to self education. I spent a good bit of time this evening with some bedding vids. Fascinating but easy to understand!

Thanks

Three44s

[cwlongshot]

A number if things work well As bedding and Devcon makes a few good ones. Acceaglass is thick and mostly stays put where epoxies will flow quite a bit. Small Spots JB Weld even works well. Basically your stoping movement from gaps and shifting within the stock. Its not rocket science and there is nothing wrong with a couple
Applications to build up to wjere ya need things to be. Remember to fill holes and use release LIBERALLY!!! Pam wirks, Johnson wax is popular. Case lube stray is another good one. (I found a good use for hornady crap spray lube here!!)

[Three44s]

cwlongshot,

In looking on the net I see lots of different epoxies used.

In repair work I have used three products over time: JB Weld, Supermend and Devcon Steel. The runnieness would be an issue so my nod might go to Accraglass.

Something I ran into at an outfit called V3 Precision was in stiffening flexing forend on Tupperware type plastic stocks. The guy making the vid used a product called Clear Glaze and also injected it into hollow butt stocks to some degree. I have some rifles in that “category”.

Another product was called Apoxie Sculpture. Basically it is a cross between play dough and an epoxy. His example was in modifying the wrist area of a rifle stock. He created a more accentuated pistol grip and also molded finger grooves at the same time.

But I digress.

As far as bedding the rifle in question, I think I will take my time. I will bed a turd rifle or two in the mean time and (taking your first post in this thread) consider pillar bedding along with glass bedding. If I glass bed now I have at least complicated pillar bedding later.

If the rifle continues to shoot like it did Sunday I am way out of the woods now. Just fixing the screw issue will take precedent for the time being.

There is my CZ 527 in 223. It is a good rifle. It has certainly killed coyotes by the score. But it never has been the fly shooter that this 204 was and is again. Maybe it is the CZ to work over first?

Another problem I have is that as a rancher my dedicated coyote rifle can get dragged around quite a bit. It is not an easy life. Wood stocks catch the brunt of the scratches etc. and both these CZ’s have nice wood. I get real fond of good looking good shooting rifles and they end up getting into Safe Queen status.

My current drag around rifle is a Ruger American Compact in 223. It does not shoot with either CZ to speak of and it ain’t no beauty queen, but it kills coyotes in good order.

The Clear Glaze might go well with the fuggly little Ruger. I might treat the forend of that plastic stock to some stiffener rods and epoxy. It is pretty flexible in the stock’s wrist area.

Anyway I have enough irons to keep the coyotes from getting complacent. Lol

Best regards

Three44s

[cwlongshot]

I fixed up my Savage 17 WSM stock last winter as your describing. I bought real 5/16” carbon fiber rods off amazon. Hogged the plastic out so I could insert from recoil Lug area to near forend tip. It worked pretty well but mostly what it did was make all Flex at magazine area where stock is really thinnest.

It did improve accuracy but with different ammo. Rifle would not shoot 25g but LOVED 20g Winchesters. AFTER bedding. Was a LASER with Federal and. ERY GOOD with 25g. But shot 20g Winchesters like a shotgun...

Last one I pillar bedded was my HOWA Boyds stock. Accuracy was good to stat in factory pillar bedded HOGUE stock. Now accuracy more consistent and a solid shooter.

I bave done 6 or maybe 8 guns. Using commercially available pillars. As well as alum I sourced locally. All works and ALL provided a worthwhile improvement.

Consistency = Accuracy. One doesn't exist without the other.

CW