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Thread: Remington rolling block 43 Spanish

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Remington rolling block 43 Spanish

    Shot at 50 yards today. 404 gr soft lead over 77 gr ffg Goex black powder. Large rifle primer. Thin card over powder, compressed mildly. First four shots grouped poorly and seemed low. I raised rear sight one notch, ran a tight clean patch thru the bore, left the brass rod out of the rifle, made sure I was resting the rifle very near the receiver and fired three consecutive shots into 2 inches. They hit 10 inches directly above point of aim. If I can duplicate that consistently I’m happy. The bore is good with distinct rifling except for about an inch at the muzzle where it is worn and has some pitting, and the crown is rather rough. But if it will keep shooting like that maybe I’ll leave well enough alone. I afterward fired several shots using my previously cast harder lead bullets sized to .441 in order to fire form the casings. Like before, they were all over the place. The soft lead in these new bullets seems to have made a very big difference. Any thoughts as to why the last three shots grouped better? I’m quite new to black powder cartridge.
    The fore stock moves forward about 1/8 inch when I fire. How do I secure it in place?

  2. #2
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    Sounds like you have a rifle, rather than a carbine? Either way, is your barrel band tight? That should stop the fore stock movement, or if it's as tight as it can get but is still loose you can shim around the band to give it something a bit thicker to tighten on. Under the fore stock is a little square piece of steel that the parts diagrams refer to as the recoil lug. When I restocked mine I left it off, as it served no purpose I could determine. It was very rusty, and the hole inside the fore stock that fit it was twice the size of the lug, so whatever it's function was intended to be it wasn't working anyway. The accuracy of the 3 shots could be due any one of several things, or a combination of factors. Just off hand, resting it consistently near the receiver and maintaining the same hold probably had something to do with it, as perhaps did the different loads.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Thank you. Barrel is 33.75 inches long. Three brass barrel bands and brass end cap near the muzzle. Do the barrel bands alone secure the fore stock? I see a small hole thru the stock just behind the barrel band nearest the receiver. Maybe there should be a pin thru the stock into a metal tab under the barrel? The recoil lug? Should I shim the barrel bands so they are immovable?
    Could there be a variation in accuracy when resting further down the barrel instead of near the receiver? I think you are correct that the consistent hold and rest had an impact on the improved accuracy.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Every gun has a sweet spot that it likes to be rested on to give best accuracy. It takes experimentation at various spots to know where your gun's sweet spot is. But I'm guessing it shoots better rested at or near the receiver because of the loose forearm wood. I'd shim every barrel band so they all fit tightly when the screws are snugged down. Until the forearm is secured you wont see great accuracy, and be able to determine where it likes to rest the best.

  5. #5
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    I think marlinman93 is dead on with his advice and assessment. To be very honest, my .43 Spanish RB is a carbine, and my advice on shimming the barrel bands is based on collective experience with other longer military rifles, not RBs per se. Going by your description it sounds like the little hole in the stockmay be for the recoil lug, and maybe yours is missing. If it was present, perhaps it would press against the rearmost barrel band and prevent the rearward movement. If you think that would be the case I'll be happy to give you mine, as like I said it seemed to be performing no function on my carbine. It is just a very small approximately square piece of steel with a tiny screw through it. When I purchased mine I very shortly came to the conclusion that the existing fore stock was of no use as it was badly splintered and held onto the carbine by an electrical tie. I replaced the fore stock and full length glass bedded it to fit well, so the recoil lug and its location were completely eliminated. Since it came without a barrel band I substituted one from a '98 Turkish rifle which is held in place by a cross screw through the stock and which also prevents fore stock movement. As for shimming the barrel bands, yes, you'd want them to tighten down as immoveable, as the idea is to put the squeeze on the fore stock against the barrel to prevent the stock from moving when the rifle is fired. Suitable shims can be made from very thin cardboard, or if thicker is needed old hacksaw blades that are cut to the desired length and filed smooth will work well. Loosen the bands and slide strips between the inner surface of the band and the top of the barrel, and/or the inside surface of the band and the stock. You may have to experiment with this to get a good squeeze, and accuracy may change somewhat.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks to both of you! The barrel bands are solid with no screws. There is a spring loaded bar which protrudes from the stock in front of each band but there is still play. I’m going to remove the fore stock to see if there’s anything a pin should go through. Then I will shim the bands immovable. Then paint the front sight orange so I can see it. With glasses on I can see the target but the sights are blurry. With no glasses the sights are distinct but the target is blurry. Then I will try to tighten groups. I have a chronograph which attaches to the barrel so I will determine velocities.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Since the bands on your gun have no screws or clamping mechanism then making them tighter wont eliminate the movement. It will come down to what you find when you remove the forearm and see if it has the recoil lug Der Gebirgsjager described. If it has the lug then putting a screw or pin through the stock hole will limit movement. But you might also want to bed the forearm to the barrel to really limit movement and increase accuracy.
    There's only so much you can expect to get from a gun designed for military use, but you can improve consistency from group to group by getting the gun as solid as possible.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Thank you. There is a small lug screwed onto the barrel with a corresponding recess in the stock, but no place for a pin. It appears my only option is to work with the the bands & stock so the arm in front will hold them tightly in place. Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    I guess I could either shim the bands or I could use something between stock and barrel to make the bands tight. Maybe aluminum foil in the stock groove where barrel bands sit? I could make it so that the barrel bands go on real tight behind the retainer arm.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I had the same 3 band RB for several years. I can't say I did any acuratizing on it but rear of forearm was loose. I put a piece of electrical rubber insulation with peel off backing in back of forearm. It made almost a snap fit. Bought Rapine mold 439385, 385gr RN. We loaded with FFG and played with it a couple years. Didn't get serious with it but had no trouble plinking gallon jugs at 100yds. Wouldn't have had it but my Dad got sucked in at an auction where they billed it as a 45/70 Buffalo gun.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    On my Swedish rolling block I’m building the recoil lug was missing. It went into a dovetail on the barrel. I made one to fit and tapped it for the screw to hold the forearm on. Epoxy bedded the stock.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  12. #12
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    Hi, thanks for your info. I’m not sure where you put the tape for a snap fit? I have three barrel bands to fit tightly into place.

  13. #13
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    So a screw goes through the bottom of the stock into the lug? See the pic of the lug on my rifle, it just sits there by itself. Was epoxy bedding a permanent improvement for accuracy?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43spanish View Post
    Hi, thanks for your info. I’m not sure where you put the tape for a snap fit? I have three barrel bands to fit tightly into place.
    Rather than try to tighten the bands to the forearm, try to tighten the forearm to the barrel. I would put masking tape on the bottom side of the barrel in line with each barrel band. Then try the forearm back on to see if the bands fit snugly as it is spaced off with the tape. Keep experimenting with added layers until it get pretty snug. It will eventually get tight, and then you'll know how much it needs to be built up.
    After this test you can apply stock bedding to the wood on the inletting at the areas adjacent to the tape and leave the tape to hold the gap. Once it sets up you can remove the forearm, take the tape off, and reinstall the forearm.
    On a simple round barrel I use a trick to eliminate any chance of bedding sticking, and not mess with release agent. I put a single layer of Saran Wrap around the barrel and tape it to the top of the barrel where it overlaps. Once it sets up, the Saran Wrap allows it to come off easily, and can be pulled free from the bedding.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43spanish View Post
    So a screw goes through the bottom of the stock into the lug? See the pic of the lug on my rifle, it just sits there by itself. Was epoxy bedding a permanent improvement for accuracy?
    I guess the question is for me? My recoil lug looks exactly like yours, and was screwed directly onto the bottom of the barrel. The old, probably original, fore stock that came with it had a mating hole in the barrel channel, but the hole was twice as big as the "lug", and I couldn't figure out what it's function was, actual or intended, and therefore eliminated it when I restocked the fore end.

    I think that marlinman93 is giving you some good advice, or at least he is on the right track. Since your barrel bands are non-adjustable, the looseness is due to old age and shrinkage of the stock. The only other way to get the fore stock tight onto the barrel is to lessen the wiggle room in the barrel channel. You can do this by shimming the channel, or you can put some AccraGlas Gel bedding compound in the channel and glass bed it.

    This would be done like any bedding job. First you'd want to scrape any old, oily, deteriorated wood out of the barrel channel. Coat the barrel and barrel bands with release compound, put the bedding compound into the barrel channel of the stock liberally (hate that word!) and then assemble the barreled action back onto the fore stock using the barrel bands. Excess bedding compound will ooze out around the barrel, and you'll want to carefully remove that while it's wet using something like a small putty knife, pocket knife, or even a suitable screwdriver, wiping it off the tool onto a paper towel or old rag. Wait 24 hours before disassembling it, and then you can clean up any bedding compound you were previously unable to get at. You might want to go along the entire top of the stock with a sanding block and 220 grit W&D sandpaper for a nice, evenly finished job--but not removing wood, just excess compound. Very important to coat everything and anything with the release compound--many guys do it twice or you will have a forever, permanently assembled rifle! When assembling the action into the stock just after applying the bedding compound start with the lower barrel band, then the middle, then the upper.

    But, the shim route may be the easier way to go, depending on what you want. Certainly, glass bedding the fore stock will reduce the firearm's value as a collectable, whereas the less permanent shims can always be removed. Remington rifles of generations subsequent to the RBs, right up to today, are often manufactured with a "pressure pad" just aft of the fore end tip. 90% of the barrel is free floated, but the last 10% has a raised area to apply a consistent pressure at that one location, and they are quite accurate.

    Many years ago when I went through a gunsmithing school, one of the instructors was a single shot fan who had made a number of very nice, highly accurate rifles, among them RBs and Martinis. His method of operation was to always full length glass bed a new rifle. Then, if he didn't find the accuracy suitable he would relieve all of the barrel except a pressure pad. If still unsatisfied he would entirely free float the barrel. Just backward, some might say; but it worked for him. Most of them were full length bedded. None of them, though, as I recall had barrel bands which are usually considered to be a liability for accuracy, due in some part to the types of trouble you're encountering. Anything pressing on or hanging on a barrel will effect the accuracy. The RBs and other long military rifles that employed barrel bands did so for structural strength of the unit as a whole, making it "soldier proof" with decent accuracy being the goal, and good accuracy a plus that varied among specimens of the same rifle. All were tight when issued, but over much more than a century's time the wood has lost much of its moisture content and shrunk causing looseness, in some cases the problem being increased with oil soaked wood which has made it soft.

    You'll have to think it through, and decide which way you want to go with this project. I'd be inclined to try shimming the barrel first, and then going from there depending on the results.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43spanish View Post
    Hi, thanks for your info. I’m not sure where you put the tape for a snap fit? I have three barrel bands to fit tightly into place.
    The rear of my forearm was kinda wallowed out and gummy. The barrel bands and catches were fine but the rear of forearm had wiggle in it. The material I used was layed right in barrel channel in first 2". Cut off below flush.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    The rear of my forearm was kinda wallowed out and gummy. The barrel bands and catches were fine but the rear of forearm had wiggle in it. The material I used was layed right in barrel channel in first 2". Cut off below flush.
    Thank you! I added some more aluminum foil in the barrel channel and tapped the barrel bands in place. The middle hand was not tight enough so I tapped in thin wood as a wedge between band and stock to make it immovable. All bands are now tight and I will shoot again.

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
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    Great advice. Thank you!

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    Marlinman, thank you for your advice. I agree, stock to barrel fit is more important than barrel band to stock. I’ve put layers of aluminum foil in stock groove at barrel bands. Front and rear bands are quite solidly in place. Middle band was not so I shimmed it to the stock with wood tapped between band and stock. So if this does not result in acceptable accuracy, what bedding compound are you referring to? ALSO, the first inch of the barrel muzzle is worn. Rifling is not as distinct as the rest of the barrel. Would it be advisable to have that inch cut off?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    One other thing I forgot to mention about bedding the forearm. If you tape off all the forearm wood at the top edges where it meets the barrel it will save the forearm, and make cleanup much easier. Just let any excess ooze out onto the tape, and wipe it off. Then once it sets up you can pull the tape and the remainder will come off with the tape. A small touch up with a file or emery paper will be all that's needed then.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check