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Thread: Greener Martini - boat anchor or can I fix it

  1. #1
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    Greener Martini - boat anchor or can I fix it

    Just took a trip back east, and came across a Greener Martini in 45-70 that has been messed up beyond belief, though it LOOKS like I can salvage a nice action out of it if I am lucky. I do not want the barrel if that has any bearing on the outcome of the situation. Came by it VERY cheap as a "non-shooter", but not fully knowledgeable of the problem, at least beyond the extractor not working. Dad used to have one like it years ago, so it piqued my interest. Anyway...

    .45-70, with a very ridiculously heavy barrel. I mean crazy heavy! Don't want that... All looks good to start with, as the action closes, but that is the end of the "looks good". When I open the action the extractor does not operate, and looks "mangled" on the right side. I just got home with it, and I can pull the extractor away from the breech with a screw driver, but it is twisted and bent on the right side looking at if from above and behind the action. Thought I was good to go at this point... But: I opened the action, undid the pinch bolt, pulled the action down ALL of the way to open the extractor all of the way (using a screwdriver as far as I can get the extractor to move), and turned the barrel as if to remove it. Now comes the PROBLEM: the barrel turns only until the top of the breech at the extractor cut on the right side contacts the threads on the receiver (not quite 45 degrees of rotation). The easy rotation then stops with quite a solid "clunk". On very close inspection, those threads at the start of the thread cut in the receiver at the very start, look a little "buggered" up. Could that have happened when the extractor was bent? Am I missing something? If the threads are damaged at that point can they be fixed? There does not appear to be any contact with the breech cut and the extractor at this point. At this point I'm only using hand power, and have not used force beyond that. Do I need to use some force?

    My father had one very similar to this rifle in the late 60s/early 70s (can't remember exactly), and we used to remove his barrel very easily using a very simple procedure (including holding the lever down to open the extractor fully), at least as far as I remember it. ?? It truly looks to me like this one is really messed up, but if I can get the barrel off and replace the extractor with one appropriate to the caliber of a replacement barrel, then that is what I got this mess for. Or, is it a boat anchor? Can I even get barrels and extractors at reasonable prices?

    I leaped before I looked on this one, but I had hopes without understanding the extent of the problem.

    So, good suggestions would be appreciated. If a boat anchor, well, I tried...

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    It has been a very long time since I had a martini barrel out
    I believe that the whole problem was probably caused by someone trying to remove the barrel with the extractor in the breech.
    Extractors are simple elvers so you should not have a problem getting one made or fixing the mangled one.
    Barrels are barrels and the Martini large action has the same thread as a SMLE. Shouldn't be an issue.
    Sooo to get the barrel out. Firstly I would be getting good light and a magnifying glass to try and see just how much damage there is. If it is possible to access the damaged thread then remove the damaged bits (I dont think this would be possible but maybe a dremel opportunity will present)
    If it is not too great then with a lot of lube I would gently and then carefully with greater force, but not brutal, try working the barrel back and forth to try and press the metal out of the way without galling or tearing the existing threads. If this fails take it to a smith and they may be able to cut the barrel off and machine out the stub.
    Anyways good luck.
    This guy probably has the parts. 'Wattle Grove Park' Gun Shop. 3030 Amamoor Creek Rd, Amamoor, Qld if Numrich doesn't.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
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    Yes, disassemble the action, unscrew the barrel, no issue there.
    Then inspect the extractor.
    What will you want for a cartridge?
    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    if you wanna go high pressure the firing pin needs to be looked at and possibly bushed. otherwise screwing an enfield #1 mk 3 barrel on and re-cutting the extractor groove would be a simple modification. the 577 and 450 cartridges used a larger diameter firing pin than is suitable for 303 rifles (or anything over 20ksi pressure, for that matter), in general.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    Thanks to all.

    I am not interested anything high pressure, but I do want a smaller boolit and much lighter barrel than the .45-70 on this action (this barrel is 1.125" from flat to flat!). .40-65 or smaller would be just fine, but I really have not gotten that far yet. If the extractor can be salvaged, I could use it with the .40-65 (already cast and reload for that one - .45-70 as well). Caliber may be dictated by the price of the barrel in the long run.

    Any good directions on disassembly of the action?

    The size of this barrel must be seen to be appreciated! Not sure what it was intended for, but one could probably carry a 105mm howitzer as easily!

    Certainly the extractor is toast as is. Not sure what it would take to put it right...

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Once you are able to get the barrel off , then you can look at possibly having it Sleeved to a smaller Bore.
    There are guys like Bobby Hoyt that do things like that.
    He is mentioned a number of times in the Black Powder Thread , and in fact Re Bored and Rifled a barrel for me earlier this year.
    He could possibly turn town the outside of the barrel for you to lighten it up a bit.
    On Buggered threads like you might have , I have used valve grinding compound to grind away the places that are fouled up.
    I just put the compound on the area where it is binding and worked the barrel back and forth to grind out the tight spot.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the valve grinding compound, but at this point the threads do not mate when they match up. I guess too much metal in the way at this point. I need to get the action apart and see what kind of room I've got to work with to grind off a little metal. ?? Or, just let a trusted gunsmith have at it, but we do not have such for this kind of work where I live. I was just hoping I could get the barrel off myself and see where I want to go to from there.

    The barrel does have a lot of metal to work with. It is not tapered, octagonal, 1 1/8" across, and around 31" in length.

    I will call Mr. Hoyt Monday and see what he has to say. Thanks for the name...

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Hmm, Isn't a greener-martini a martini rifle action that was long ago converted to a shotgun by greener,
    and also takes some proprietary kind of shotgun ammo specific to the greener-martini shotgun?

    The proprietary SG cartridges (there were several designs) had a large deep ring around the primer
    or some sort of other mechanical block which prevented the use of "normal" SG ammo.
    These greener-martini shotguns were made this way because they were used by colonial police
    (in India, Africa, etc.)
    and the gvt/police didn't want stolen/captured shotguns used against the gvt/police,
    since the mob would not have access to the proprietary SG ammo.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    are you able to post a picture of this action so to properly identify what you have and what appears to be damaged .sounds like some one tried to remove the barrel with the action closed or assembled the action incorrectly ?
    extractors are not hard to remake if it is damaged beyond repair ,and the heavy ugly barrel is worth turning to a more likeable profile if the bore is serviceable
    here is a pic of a modified extractor and uses on leg and a greener take down action



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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    OK to take the barrel out.

    Thought you said the barrel was relatively loose already.
    First make a set of hardwood blocks to fit the barrel profile. These need to be a good enough fit to hold the barrel firm against turning action when clamped.
    Also make a block to fit tightly in the front of the action/receiver.
    Take the action apart so that you only have the barrel and receiver together. No extractor etcetera to get in the way.
    Hold the barrel tightly near the receiver end, preferably in a barrel clamp but if it is restively loose a good vice might work.
    With the spacer in the receiver (to prevent warpage and crushing) and blocks to prevent damage to the receivers surface. use a big spanner/wrench placed at the front of the receiver to remove the barrel .
    As said before lots of lube and take it easy back and forth. Basically you are trying to push the damaged threads back into place or at least closer. You do not want to tear or gall the threads in the receiver any more than already done.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    Success!

    Sorry I did not get on the I'net earlier today, but between church and a walk I've been pretty busy.

    I stopped by the hardware store and got a set of grinders for my dremel tool that I have not used in many, many years. Following suggestions to grind out the offending "mashed" threads, it took me only about 10 minutes of very careful grinding and the barrel turned very easily. I had to try it a number of times, but when it turned, there was no resistance! The threads I ground off under the right side of the extractor were very mashed up, so I just ground them off (two threads). The threads on the barrel are still pristine, and the barrel turned off with nothing more than hand fairly easy hand pressure.

    Oh, BTW, I took the action apart before I did the grinding so I could better see what I was doing.

    Photos:

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    The offending extractor!
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    So, I'm in the market for an extractor, at the very least. Where can I get such?

    I'm thinking I might keep the barrel, shortened and turned beyond the forearm, and have it lined for something besides .45-70. But, I am open to suggestions that can work.

    Hope the photos help, but I really do need to replace that extractor. I can't imagine it can be saved, but...
    Last edited by 40-82 hiker; 11-03-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    yes that is saveable ,will have to heat it up and using a empty case adjust till she is back in shape .The web between the two legs can be eliminated as it will be a pain to get that part corrected .
    identical action to mine SAR Corp too
    as you described somebody tried barrel removal with the action closed with a tool.
    At the end of the day you have a nice Martini
    Cheers Peter

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    One point,the Greener GP action has a larger thread than a Lee Enfield or Martini Henry,size is 1.090",so dont bother with 303 barrels...........and parts are very difficult to find,so fix your extractor..........I have also seen the result of force applied to a burred barrel thread,stripped thread in the soft reciever metal.,so you did well with the grinder.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    Thanks to all again. I'll work on the extractor later in the week. Until then I'll give some thought to the barrel profile and length. Reckon I'll go with .40-65 liner. I'll update as the project progresses, but so far this looks like a great project without too much $$ involved. But geez, was I bummed out when I discovered I could not get the barrel off. However, really nothing to it with a little coaching!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    They are a fine rifle and well worth the effort to bring it back into service, that extractor can be saved as suggested by blackbahart. My Martini Enfield action was fitted with a new purpose built breach block when converted to 303 British, some just had the fireing pin turned down and the hole bushed but mine was fitted with a new block as many were. You have a fine rifle there Sir and I am green with envy. Regards Stephen

  16. #16
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    The Greener is a takedown action, and it has a number of different features that don't align with other large frame Martini actions. I personally love a barrel as your gun has now, so I wouldn't change it. But if you want to change it I'd simply buy a lighter blank from Green Mountain and have the barrel fitted to your Greener. I'd keep the heavy .45-70 barrel unaltered and maintain your Greener as a two barrel set. That's really the nice part about it being a takedown, and having multiple barrels.
    I also agree with trying to heat and save the extractor. Even if it can't be returned to perfect shape, it could be Tig welded wherever it might need metal added, and then shaped to bring it back to perfection. Finding a Greener extractor will be pretty tough, and hold off your project for a very long time!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    I’ve been looking for a Martini in 45-70 forever that I could restock into military looking wood and fittings. Don’t want to mess with reloading for an original. I’ve seen a few but they either had octagon bbls or fancy wood. I wish I had picked up one of the old Navy Arms Martini actions from the ‘70’s. I had one of their 45-70 rolling blocks. Good luck on your build.

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