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Thread: New BACO Mold JIM444530E

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    New BACO Mold JIM444530E

    Just figured this section needed a new post.

    After a couple months, I just recieved my new JIM444530E yesterday. I also ordered a new BACO expander plug for the bullet as all of my other one's are specific to GG. The new expander is a .450"-.453". The bullet they sent with it is as close to .444" as I can measure with my micrometer. Will probably start with 16/1 as that alloy worked well in my 40/65. I have many different alloys and quite a few pounds of tin, so I can always change if necessary.

    I jumped into the PP a few years back with my 40/65 Crossno Hepburn. After the advice from here, it was shooting comparable groups to GG right from the start. Wiping between shots, I was able to slightly improve consistency over time. The mold I have for it is a Brooks elliptical.

    The new mold is for a 45/70 CSharps 1885, 32" heavy octagonal Badger 1-18", SS trigger, great wood, Heilman rear Soule, and who ever CSharps uses for a spirit level front aperture. With my Paul Jones 530 grain GG mold, this rifle is a fantastic shooter. Now to see what it'll do with a PP bullet.

    FWIW, my paper is Eaton Eminence onion skin kokle finish 9lb. I have a couple boxes of the stuff.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    DH,

    I can't find on the BACO website how long that bullet is. Can you tell me? It's a good looking bullet for sure. I'm just wondering how it will work with an 18-twist.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

  3. #3
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    I'll check it. Standby...

  4. #4
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    1.460" and 528.5 grains in whatever alloy they used.

    I paid more attention to diameter than length. I've measured that paper time again and from what I've picked up here, I'd rather the bullets be a tiny bit large than small. They should turn out right on .450". I wet patch.

    All my GG bullets (Paul Jones and an Old West brass mold) are 1.45" plus and are fine to 600. I suspect I'll be able to put another 5-7 grains of Swiss 1.5 below the PP bullet. We'll see...
    Last edited by DHDeal; 11-01-2019 at 03:09 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    I would think that 1.460" would be fine to 600 yards in your .45-70 IMHO. It would do well to 1000 though it is just tad long for that distance, but again that's just me.

    That BACO bullet is very similar to the bullet I use out to 1000 and mine has done very well for me. I did shorten mine to 1.440" from it's original 1 .460" just to put my mind at ease.

    I was using mine in a .45-90 at 1.460" with 100 to 105 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 and it shot very well. I shortened it only after switching to my .45-70 for long range. Both rifles are 18-twist, but I only run 83.0 grains in my .45-70. I felt that to make up for the velocity difference I would be better off a little shorter. It worked out well for me, not sure the length difference is the reason why it did.

    My mold cast at .445", I dry patch and then size to .4505" which fits my .45-70 bore perfectly.

    That bullet should serve you well. Let us know how it goes.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Thunder - here's the mold link .. https://www.buffaloarms.com/444-530-...ase-jim444530e
    PS: Boy am I glad I bought several of Jim's molds early - the price has really gone up. I was paying $125 back then
    Regards
    John

  7. #7
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    Jim,
    Out of curiosity, how much are you compressing to get 83 grains in the 45/70? Being used to GG in the 45/70 and using Starline brass, I've got to compress a fair bit (.200" ish) to get my Paul Jones bullets in the case. And that mold has the top 2 bands undersized so I can seat them out.

    Depending on how I feel tomorrow, I may cast a hundred or so at 16/1 so I can see how it all fits.

    You mentioned sizing your bullets. Did you use a Lee die? How rough is it on the paper? I suspect highly you are only sizing a small amount regardless.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    DH,

    I'm am compressing a bit more now with this newer lot of 1 1/2, it is less dense and I have always stayed with the same powder weight when changing lots and just let the compression be whatever it is. I believe it is about .150" or a bit more now. My bullet is only in the case .080" and there is a .060" LDPE wad under that. I know that 83 grains overflows the case a little, but I use a bushing which allows for that.

    My chamber is tight and fired unsized Starline Brass is .452" at the case mouth so to get that .460" wad in the case that was filled to the top with the old lot of 1 1/2 I made a bushing that sits over the case mouth. Above the case it steps to about .448" and then is funnel shaped to allow me to set the wad in the top of the bushing easily and compress the wad down and into the case without shaving plastic off on the case mouth. This works pretty slick, much better than trying to force the big wad into that tight case full of powder.

    That was the original purpose of the bushing, seating the wad, now it serves as a case extension to allow for the fluffy powder also. A compression bushing as it's called.

    I am a retired tool and die maker and I have a few machines so I make a lot of stuff, the compression bushing, my bullet mold and my bullet sizing die for examples. I really am only sizing my bullets about .001", just smoothing out the paper really. I started doing this because I had trouble chambering some bullets at matches. That was a PITA.

    When I changed from my .45-90 to my .45-70 the bore diameter of the 70 was a little looser and the bullet that had worked so well for me in the 90 didn't shoot as well in my 70. So I set the mold up and bored it out a little. It seemed to fit better and shot well. Then at the next match I had some hard chambering cartridges. That was not good. I have since learned that it's worse than I thought. With only a little compression on the powder and having to force the bullet into the bore I was actually pushing the bullets deeper into the case and changing the compression. Accuracy suffered.

    The easy fix was to make a sizing die to just get all my patched bullets to a uniformly snug fit in the bore. What a difference it made. All cartridge chamber with a light push of my thumb, each feels exactly the same. Accuracy improved. I now size all my paper patch bullets by choice. I believe it makes a difference.

    I'm not sure how much you can size a patched bullet without messing up the paper. I do know the die has to be very smooth inside and I polish mine to a mirror finish. Again, I'm only sizing them about .001".

    16:1 is a good starting point for that BACO bullet. The nose isn't too long or slender but 16:1 will work without any worries. It eliminates any concerns about nose slumping from the start.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

  9. #9
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    Understand on just touching the patched bullet as far a sizing is concerned. That's another reason I went with the .444". It's easier to just barely size it than try to make it fatter. I'm not planning to buy more paper anytime soon and doubt I could find any like I have for decent money.

    I'm planning to order a Lee sizing die if my ammo doesn't load easily. I tend to buy a little too small and open them up to what I need. Kind of makes them a one trick pony, but what's $35ish more.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I have the .443" version of that mold and with 0.002" thick Eesleck paper it shoots pretty well at the ram line in a 1:18 twist .45-70. I have only ever used 16:1 with it.

    I size with a Lee .450" push through sizer for the same reasons that Jim mentioned.

    Chris.

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    DHDeal, you mention newer powder being less dense. The less dense stuff seems to like quite a bit more compression, so if it gives you trouble, increase the weight, compress more and see what happens.

    I would love to know the lot/dates for your older and newer powder and what their relative accuracies are.

  12. #12
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    Brent,
    DT mentioned the differences between old and new lots of Swiss.

    All of my Swiss is older. I stocked up a few years back and haven't shot through all of it yet. Heck, I've even got a few cans of old "Cartridge" left from when I started the BPCR thing. One day I'll dig through my cabinet and see what else is in there...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHDeal View Post
    Brent,
    DT mentioned the differences between old and new lots of Swiss.

    All of my Swiss is older. I stocked up a few years back and haven't shot through all of it yet. Heck, I've even got a few cans of old "Cartridge" left from when I started the BPCR thing. One day I'll dig through my cabinet and see what else is in there...
    what is the lot number of the current swiss yer using?

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    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    26 Nov 2012, that should be good stuff!
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

  16. #16
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    I ended up casting 125 bullets from the new mold yesterday. After getting measurements for the paper, I spent more time cutting patches and wrapping 25 or so. I made up a couple of dummy rounds with the PP approximately .200" in the case. They slide right in with a light push and the extractor pulls the whole round back out. Even though the bullets are a snug slip fit, the OAL didn't change from the chambering and extraction.

    I really should have bought the .449" - .452" expander from Buffalo Arms I think. We'll see if a bullet will stick after a 10 shot string. I do wipe between shots and the Badger has always cleaned up with 1 wet and 1 dry so it may not be an issue. I do like the ability to extract a live round just in case.

    Now to see how much 1.5F I can shove in the case under the bullet. I suspect my wads will be a very snug fit as my wad cutter cuts them large. A .060" poly wad may be really tight. Problems that aren't really problems....

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check