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Thread: 50 or 54 slow twist barrel?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    50 or 54 slow twist barrel?

    I have a TC Hawken in .50 cal. The stock barrel is the usual 1:48 twist QLA. It shoots maxi balls and every other conical I have tried very well. With 100 grains of powder, it is cloverleaf at 50 yards territory. That is fine for hunting, but with a curved metal buttstock it isn't much fun to shoot. With round ball, I get a pattern rather than a group. Tried all kinds of things, but that just seems to be the way this barrel is.

    I am thinking about buying a Green Mountain 1:66 barrel to get a good round ball barrel. It looks like Track of the Wolf has drop in 15/16" barrels that will fit my rifle in both .50 and .54. Any particular reason to favor one or the other? My TC Grey Hawk in .54 shoots round ball well at high charges and I used it to whack a doe this year, but the groups open up a fair bit at target charges.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  2. #2
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    assess yer requirements for the gun and take it from there.

    whether i hunt with it or not, i always prefer the 54 for a muzzle loader. i only use flintlocks and a 66" twist, with a patched ball.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    What is the Twist on your Grey Hawk ?
    I prefer .50 cal. In 1:66 for RB
    But .54 is more power for hunting.
    That is why I had my .56 Smooth Bore Re-bored to .61 in 1:66

  4. #4
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    What is the Twist on your Grey Hawk ?
    I prefer .50 cal. In 1:66 for RB
    But .54 is more power for hunting.
    That is why I had my .56 Smooth Bore Re-bored to .61 in 1:66
    1:48 in the Grey Hawk, but non-QLA. It likes conicals and balls, but always with heavy charges. I am interested in a round ball barrel for the hawken in part because I want something that might shoot balls accurately with a less punishing charge. Not sure the recoil difference is worth worrying about between 50 and 54.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Lags has got it best.
    Green mountain RB barrels seem to need a decent charge to get best accuracy - a 54 with a decent charge can stop bein fun after 20 or so shots - if ya only gonna plink and shoot paper go for the 50 - cheaper to shoot, 20 grains less powder - (way more variety of components available off the shelf too)

  6. #6
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Truthfully, I don't much care about the lack of 54 components. I bought an original TC maxi ball 54 mold off ebay, I already cast balls and REALs in the caliber, and it looks like I can get the rest of it easily online. The lower powder charge and recoil sounds like more of a big deal.

    50 RB is plenty for deer, correct?
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
    Truthfully, I don't much care about the lack of 54 components. I bought an original TC maxi ball 54 mold off ebay, I already cast balls and REALs in the caliber, and it looks like I can get the rest of it easily online. The lower powder charge and recoil sounds like more of a big deal.

    50 RB is plenty for deer, correct?

    .54 cal. items are available from just about everyone, just look around. .50 cal. PRB is fine for hunting. You don't say which powder brand and grade you are using. 100 gr with a PRB seems like a lot. I would try 60 gr. of 3F or 2F to start shooting a PRB and work up 5 gr at a time. Olde Ensford (sp?)powder is good priced. Powder Inc. does mail order. Naturally only use pure lead, 5-6 BHN. Check to see how your fired patches are. You want them to look like you can use them again. No tears or burned through spots. If all else fails you may want to contact Bob Hoyt 717-642-6696 any get your barrel lined and loose the QLA, sometimes they don't work so well. A reline will be less than a GM barrel. Good shooting.
    Bob
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    I imagine I could have the existing barrel bored out, but it shoots the maxis so well that I don't want to mess with it. Clover leaf at 50 yards is great. Since I live where elk are on the menu, conicals are always going to be of interest.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Find yourself a used TC barrel that is in Poor to fair condition.
    Then have that one sent off to be Re Bored to what you want.
    I am sure you can find one , or even a complete Rifle at a very reasonable cost.
    If you don't like the Hawkins with the curved butt plate , then look for a used Renagade like I did with a flat butt so you can install a recoil pad if you want to lessen the punishment.

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    a .54 will work just fine with most any black powder charge under a proper patched ball resistance. i only load 3f and with charges as low as 30 grains for close targets and 100 grains for distance, or knock-down power. for the most part, 70 grains of swiss 3f under a 225 grain patched .530 ball will kill just about anything on this continent and won't bruise yer shoulder nor rattle yer teeth. a .54 rifle with a slow 66" twist is a fine all-around gun ... better yet if it's a trad flinter.


  11. #11
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Beautiful.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    There is a market for rifles like yours.
    Screw holes can be filled.

  13. #13
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    One of my shooting buds has a lyman 54 that he regularly shoots at a 12" target at 200yds. Patched round ball over 70 gr 3f. Impact at 200 is impressive. Has me reevaluating my heavy recoiling loads.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortlegs View Post
    One of my shooting buds has a lyman 54 that he regularly shoots at a 12" target at 200yds. Patched round ball over 70 gr 3f. Impact at 200 is impressive. Has me reevaluating my heavy recoiling loads.
    The doe I shot at 50 yards with a 54 ball a few weeks ago made me a believer in round ball. Won't bother with heavy conicals for deer unless the rifle insists.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Is seating round ball through the QLA tearing the patches?
    Had that problem on a .54 New Englander because the bottom of that QLA counterbore was a flat sharp entry into the rifling.
    When the guys in the TC shop told me it was by design I went into slack jawed disbelieve for a couple of seconds until it sunk in.
    That problem got cured. Now it shoots soft lead finger lubed 45-70 boolits as they drop out of the molds.

    Hey, if you were to go with reboring, ever looked at the ballistics and trajectory tables for .50 versus .54 caliber? I did years ago and unless Lymans was all wet it looked like the sweet spot was in between .50 and .54. Been thinking about it ever since bumping into a .515 round ball mold. I got it to use tight patched round ball in a fast twist .52 (I'm gonna but finding time for fun sure seems to be more difficult with each passing year).

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    You should try light charges with round ball like 50 or 60 grains with the fast twist 1 in 48

  17. #17
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    I have tried everything with the hawken. I am throwing in the towel on round ball and moving on.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  18. #18
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    I too have yet to have a TC 1:48 twist shoot a PRB well. Oddly the best shooter is my TC scout pistol, and I believe it may have a 1:20" twist

    I settled on conical in the renegade, I'll probably end up selling the new Englander eventually, and my new flintlock renegade I'm seriously considering sending to Bob Hoyt to freshen the rifling AKA deepen. I have no idea why, but it seems to me the shallow rifling is far more a detriment to a PRB than the twist is. If the 1:48 twist limits me to 60 grains of powder, great. I just want it to shoot good at any speed for starters.

    As for caliber, 54 caliber is the way to go with round ball. Nothing wrong with 50, but if you have the choice, 54 offers more.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    I vote .54 over .50 every day no matter what it is for target or hunting.

  20. #20
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    When I first got into blackpowder I started with a TC Hawken like most guys. It was a .50 cal because I loved the movie "Jeremiah Johnson".

    But my accuracy was poor with everything that I tried. I then decided to try a replacement barrel with a slow twist.

    I bought one and the seller sent me a .54 cal by mistake. After I tried it I sold all of my .50 cal stuff.

    I now have two, a percussion in the Hawken style and a flintlock Pedersoli Frontier.

    Love the .54.


    Steve in N CA

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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