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Thread: shooting long range at deer and elk with paper patched boolits with 30-06

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Some casters are experimenting with powder coating bullets and driving them faster and shooting longer ranges.

    I cant speak to that but i am shooting powder coated in my 38 & 357. sofar it has all been positive and I will start to try them in my rifles.

    To soon to hunt live game for me anyway.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Because of the limitations imposed by the materials longer means bigger rather than smaller and faster. Deer aren't hard to kill but bigger is inherently easier to make accurate and does not depend so much on expansion to do the work needed.
    But that's my opinion and nothing else.
    If the planet had avoided the scourge of jacketed bullets perhaps we could all be enjoying wonderful scaled up versions of something about like the .32 Winchester.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortlegs View Post
    Long range shots at game are very iffy, Steel can be hunted year round!
    Shooting at game long distance is just shooting, not hunting. I prefer to hunt even if I am not successful. Shooting targets at long distance is a different story.

  4. #24
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    I am glad to be reading this many comments not supporting long distance hunting... or shooting at animals. I know far too many people that shoot very little if at all but go hunting totally unprepared and not capable of making any kind of killing shot past maybe 100 yards. I also know people who have bragged about making 600 yard shots on deer, elk and moose. One guy had a range finding scope and made a shot on a deer at 600 yards which he bragged about. He was a good shot and had good equipment he knew but all it takes is a gust of wind or small mistake and at 600 yards that bullet can be feet off target turning a heart shot into a gut or nose shot. Then if the animal is wounded can you find the spot you hit it then track it? Another guy bragged about shooting a moose at 600+ yards with a .243 which is not a moose gun at any range. It took him 6 shots to hit it!

    I am not much of a hunter. I have hunted and still hunt some but I am more of a shooter than hunter. I have nothing against hunting as long as responsible shots are taken ~ as in within the capabilities of both hunter and equipment.

    I hear arguments from people that everyone should hunt with a scope because it makes you more accurate. Really? So a .54 cal. muzzleloader with open sights at 50 yards is an inferior weapon to a scoped .243 for moose at 600 yards? I don't think so! A .30-30 lever action with open sites at 100 yards is a more ethical and dependable choice than a scoped 7mm mag. at 600 yards on any big game shot at by anyone.

    Long story short, you and the gun may be able to connect regularly into a kill size zone at long range but what happens if there is a gust of wind, you make a small mistake (this is shooting in the field, not off a bench at known range) or whatever and your killing shot turns into a gut or butt shot? Can you get to the spot and find the blood trail? Can you do it fast enough that the wounded animal can't outdistance you and get away possibly mortally wounded?

    I read in one magazine that hunters have to have a cartridge like .25-06 to hunt antelope ~ flat shooting high velocity guns are required! In another magazine I read about successful muzzleloader hunting of antelope!?! Wait... what!?! That must be one high velocity flat shooting muzzleloader... or maybe they got within range?

    I would argue that 300 yards is a long shot and longer than most are capable of to make a killing shot dependably. Take into account remaining velocity and expansion requirements and I think it becomes an iffy proposition at best for cast boolits. Large bores like .45-70 are certainly capable of dispatching large animals at extended range and really don't need much if any bullet expansion to do it, but they also suffer from quite high trajectories so trickier range estimation and greater wind deflection than with higher velocity/BC bullets. An animal gut shot by a .45-70 is no better off than one gut shot by a .300 Winchester.

    I'll side with the guys saying don't do it.

    Just my opinion though and we all know what that's worth.

    Longbow

  5. #25
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    I took a moose @ 385 meters with 338 Lapua Mag ten years ago.

    The bull had been wounded the day before,I got a call from the club,being the only long range shooter PLUS I had a tracking trained german shepherd. At that time I was practising 300-500 meters at least every other week all year round. Had done that for years. In rain,wind,snow,any weather.

    I could never do that with cast,my abilities as ammo maker/caster are far behind the task. And 338 LM BC is something completely different,as is ability to kill,obviously.

    I still shoot 300 WM 300 m regularly but I consider 200-250 a max for whitetail. Everything depends. I group 30 mm / 300 with many bullets. Zeiss,Tikka,Spuhr... shoot clays up to 500 with Sierra 168 MK,they still group 50 mm out there.

    I have a 22LR bolt rifle,mildot scope,it's good for beer cans up to 200 meters.

  6. #26
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    Guys n gals............ Thanx for your input. I appreciate it. I think that I will need to find other hunting spots where for the most part i will be able to get closer then 380 yards.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackerjack57 View Post
    Guys n gals............ Thanx for your input. I appreciate it. I think that I will need to find other hunting spots where for the most part i will be able to get closer then 380 yards.
    Or you can start long range practising with a modern rifle and ammo. Can you shoot there, practise in those conditions as you like?

    Long range shooting with proper equipment is lots of fun and addictive. I have seen women -who never fired a gun before- break claybirds one after one @ 300 meters w 300 WM. An instructor friend does these first timer shooting courses - it's impressive to see how easy shooting can be... until we start to think.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    In the 70's an instructor told me that women do that because they pay attention to what is being said. And in 1990 my wife proved it to me when she sat down with a center fire for the first time and shot a 5/8" group (7-08, 130 grain, 100 yards).

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    My lovely niece sets the bar when it comes to shooting. She's a natural. We were shooting beer cans at about 80 - 100 yds when the cans bgan hopping in the air. She was shooting them on the bottom rim to make them jump - she said just hitting them was getting boring. Then she started shooting the end facing away, through the opening!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  10. #30
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    Yeah,when there's no previous bad habits learned... it's easy! Only think what was just said by the instructor.

    I witness this every year one way or another in my own shooting. When I start practising something seriously after a break, like trap, my scores -that are often surprisingly good in spring- always drop for months. I think and analyze too much.

  11. #31
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    I find the same thing in shooting guns but even more so in archery. I often don't get a lot of practice through our snowy winters so in the spring when I go to the first shoot my expectations aren't that high yet more often than not I get quite a good score. Then I start practicing for the next shoot... and thinking. That's usually my downfall. Too much thinking! It all has to be natural and relaxed leaning on what you have learned and know. Muscle memory.

    "Feel the force" and shoot!

    Longbow

  12. #32
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    I use paper patch and regular lubed bullets in .45/70 to hunt big game. I also use cast bullets in my 358 winchesters to hunt big game out to 200 or so yards. Under .35 caliber rifles get jacketed pills while hunting big game with one exception. For very close shots over feeders on whitetail deer, I will occasionally use a .30/30 with the RCBS flat point cast bullet. These shots are seldom over 50-70 yards.
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

  13. #33
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    Have you ever been at the rifle range before hunting season, counted and chuckled at the number of gun owners sighting in their rifles ... that couldn’t hit a bull in the **** with an ironing board ... trying to put a bullet hole on paper? These are the “hunters” that wound animals that die hunkered in a brush pile because of their long range shots after they finally put a bullet hole on paper at 50 yards
    I stopped counting the number of deer I shot at 35 and every one was hunted with a shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot.
    Regards
    John

  14. #34
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    30-06 so dearly respected in the open field flat lands of mid America where a standing Bull at 250 yrds will brace his legs and take all the lead a shooter of a 30-06 can aim. When a shooter/handloader of the 300 Win mag steps up level's his rifle. It's "good night Mr. Bull ~ or whatever."

    My opinion
    If someone wants to harvest really BIG big animals? Moose Elk Bear & trophy Mule deer. 300 Win Mag has a reputation for dispatching everything in North America well. 45-70 & 30-06 are I believe on the cusp of being antiquated when compared to today's high velocity harder hitting cartridge offerings.
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    30-06 so dearly respected in the open field flat lands of mid America where a standing Bull at 250 yrds will brace his legs and take all the lead a shooter of a 30-06 can aim. When a shooter/handloader of the 300 Win mag steps up level's his rifle. It's "good night Mr. Bull ~ or whatever."

    My opinion
    If someone wants to harvest really BIG big animals? Moose Elk Bear & trophy Mule deer. 300 Win Mag has a reputation for dispatching everything in North America well. 45-70 & 30-06 are I believe on the cusp of being antiquated when compared to today's high velocity harder hitting cartridge offerings.
    Can't stop laughing at the first sentence....................

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will share a several of mine.

    First far more big game animals are lost do to shot placement than anything else. Most hunter only shoot enough to go hunting. Their biggest challenge is limited shooting ability coupled with a lack of basic anatomy for proper placement.

    Second the recoil and concussion of the magnum cartridges of the above 30/06 are more than most casual hunters can deal with.

    Third I don't see much so call knockdown difference between the 30/06 and the 300 Win or the 300 Weatherby. I have not shot any big game with any of the other various 30 cal Mags. I did some load development for a buddies 300 UltraMag since he could deal with the recoil. I have shot some with a 338 Win mag and the 375 H&H. The 375 is a hammer. The 338 is closer to the 30 Cal mags than the 375. I have around a dozen 06's. I have sold my 300 Win., 300 Weatherby and my 338 Wing Mag. If I need to really thump something I reach for the 375 H&H. I am open to a 338 Lapua or something in that class. Don't think I will even purchase another 30 Cal mag to hunt with.

    Maybe 15 years ago I watched a young lady shoot a 360 class elk at just over 230 yards. One properly placed shot with a 6mm Rem using a Barnes TripleShock. Honestly I don't think my 375 H&H would have put it down any quicker.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-01-2020 at 12:15 AM.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Can't stop laughing at the first sentence....................

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I will share a several of mine.

    First far more big game animals are lost do to shot placement than anything else. Most hunter only shoot enough to go hunting. Their biggest challenge is limited shooting ability coupled with a lack of basic anatomy for proper placement.

    Second the recoil and concussion of the magnum cartridges of the above 30/06 are more than most casual hunters can deal with.

    Third I don't see much so call knockdown difference between the 30/06 and the 300 Win or the 300 Weatherby. I have not shot any big game with any of the other various 30 cal Mags. I did some load development for a buddies 300 UltraMag since he could deal with the recoil. I have shot some with a 338 Win mag and the 375 H&H. The 375 is a hammer. The 338 is closer to the 30 Cal mags than the 375. I have around a dozen 06's. I have sold my 300 Win., 300 Weatherby and my 338 Wing Mag. If I need to really thump something I reach for the 375 H&H. I am open to a 338 Lapua or something in that class. Don't think I will even purchase another 30 Cal mag to hunt with.

    Maybe 15 years ago I watched a young lady shoot a 360 class elk at just over 230 yards. One properly placed shot with a 6mm Rem using a Barnes TripleShock. Honestly I don't think my 375 H&H would have put it down any quicker.
    Absolutely, Shot placement and using a proper bullet are most important.

    Jedman

  17. #37
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    As Jedman said:"Absolutely, Shot placement and using a proper bullet are most important.

    Jedman ." There is no rifle that you could carry into the field and shoot from your shoulder that will positively put an animal down immediately no matter where it is hit. Knock down power is a fallacy that we have bought into. If you put the bullet in the right place the beasty will come down. If you interrupt the CNS (central nervous system) it will come down right now. If you shoot it through the heart or lungs it may (or may not) run some small distance before it expires. If you shoot it in the liver it will die how far away depends on you and whether you are willing to wait long enough before following it (a minimum of 30 minutes by the clock). If you gut shoot it it will die. Somewhere else and probably not be recovered or even found by you. There is no Mangleum on the market that can change those facts. I know I have use a number of them, and they don't kill any better than the 30/06 or 7x57mm mauser.

  18. #38
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    I had a friend and co-worker who was a commercial butcher before becoming a LEO. He had bagged and killed so much game, which he processed, that he became a butcher at 17. Flash forward.

    My friend had a Savage 110 in 30-06 from the time he was 12, but at 32 wanted a 300 mag with a vortex optic because he hunted Elk where the ranges we greater. First trip out, he bagged an Oregon Elk at 450, using his range finder and new rifle. He was no slouch behind the sights and in his hunting, he was a shooter. I shot with him, at various targets and ranges. He can shoot.

    I limit my range to 100 or less as that was the usual range I encountered game near. This guy regularly shot beyond my capability, but not his. There is a lot to be said regarding folks who knew not only the rifle's capability, but also their own. I think they called that regular practice, he did.

    PS, My cousin and my friend never killed more deer with cast. Dad killed more deer with his 30-30 than his 30-06, the whole concept was if you can't stalk them in close, you aren't a hunter. Dad and cousin never hunted Rocky Mountain Elk or Wyoming Antelope, 100 yards is a very good stalk for any hunter
    Last edited by fcvan; 06-18-2020 at 07:16 PM.
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  19. #39
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    Wyoming antelope can be stalked. About 12 yrs. ago I hunted antelope in WY. with a friend that did not hunt. After crawling on hands and knee's and then on our belly I killed my antelope at less than 70 yards. Had a buck and doe tag so did this twice on same hunt. My friend stated that he had never in his life been on a hunt like that.

  20. #40
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    Best I can say, his hunt with you was a journeyman lesson on the hunt, leading to the kill
    Common sense Gun Safety . . .

    Is taught at the Range!

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