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Thread: Is the sacrifice of Jesus over rated?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    I have followed his posts here and have concluded dverna does not troll. He asks honest questions that are on his mind. They warrant thought out responses.
    Thank you sir.

    To DG,

    I did not explain how I view death....so bear with me please.

    I was a atheist for 5 decades. For an atheist, death is the end. It is final and there is nothing beyond.

    For a believer, death is the end of life, but there is hope of eternal life with God. There is something afterwards.

    I am not sure every believer knows with 100% certainty they will pass judgement. Jesus knew He would be with God after He died....He was assured of eternal life.

    The examples offered by DD25 are important to consider. Imagine being an atheist and sacrificing your life to save others...with no hope or chance of eternal life....what an ultimate sacrifice that is. In my mind, it is different than the sacrifice Jesus made for us. Jesus knew the end of his human life was the beginning of eternal life for all humanity.

    BTW, I wonder how God views an atheist who pays the ultimate price to save others. Does He feel any remorse that someone that selfless and courageous has no place in His kingdom?
    Don Verna

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Perhaps a position of perspective, Ickisrulz. In this instance I make that observation because the question seems to be formulated to elicit a response by "getting a rise" out of a person. The question for a true believer is not if Christ's sacrifice is overrated, but if it is underrated. To most true Christians the sacrifice made by Christ is the real basis of the Gospel, and the real basis of the religion itself, which teaches that the only way to salvation is through Christ, and that is because Christ made the sacrifice. The question is preposterous when viewed from the viewpoint of a Christian, and is therefore a trolling question. If one believes himself to be saved through the sacrifice of Christ, and if Christ is the only "way", then he can not overrate the sacrifice, and it is a ridiculous question deserving of a sharp answer.

    There are, as you know, many versions and branches of Christianity, some so far out as to be considered cults. The first
    instance that comes to mind is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, AKA The Mormons. They believe that
    during the three days and three nights during which most versions of Christianity teach Christ was dead in the tomb, Christ actually went to Hades and ministered to the lost souls consigned therein. This is not reconcilable with the Holy Bible's
    version of what occurred. Dead is dead.

    Again, I say it is a religiously trolling question to state that Christ's death was not a death, and if it is overrated. No one who was hopelessly lost and now can receive eternal life with God can consider Christ's death and sacrifice to be overrated.
    If they do, they have not fully grasped the gift.

    I do consider this to be a "thought out response."
    No doubt everything you said is true and probably has been part of your thinking since you were a child.

    Dverna has recently become a Christian and is still working his way through understanding the doctrine. To be honest, I find his ideas a "little out there" at times. But I realize they are honest and under development.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Thank you sir.

    To DG,

    I did not explain how I view death....so bear with me please.

    I was a atheist for 5 decades. For an atheist, death is the end. It is final and there is nothing beyond.

    For a believer, death is the end of life, but there is hope of eternal life with God. There is something afterwards.

    I am not sure every believer knows with 100% certainty they will pass judgement. Jesus knew He would be with God after He died....He was assured of eternal life.

    The examples offered by DD25 are important to consider. Imagine being an atheist and sacrificing your life to save others...with no hope or chance of eternal life....what an ultimate sacrifice that is. In my mind, it is different than the sacrifice Jesus made for us. Jesus knew the end of his human life was the beginning of eternal life for all humanity.

    BTW, I wonder how God views an atheist who pays the ultimate price to save others. Does He feel any remorse that someone that selfless and courageous has no place in His kingdom?
    The Bible assures us as Christians that we need not fear the judgement. When we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior we will forever be with the Lord. Christians are not subject to the great white throne judgment. We also can never lose our salvation for the Bible assures us that nothing can separate us from the love of God and that when we die we come into the presence of the Lord. It is true that we do give an account for ourselves but this is not to determine where we spend eternity but to determine our rewards in Heaven.
    Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

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  4. #24
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    DD25,

    I struggle with the fact that everyone who accepts Jesus as their savior will enter heaven, regardless of the sins they have committed or the evil they have done. But so it is written

    My friend sent me the book The Shack. It is about a man whose little girl is taken and murdered. Years later, the father spends time with God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. At the end, God asks the father to forgive the man who murdered his daughter. It made made me think a lot. It showed me how unworthy I am.

    How would/could I spend eternity with the soul of the person who murdered a loved one? I expect my rewards in heaven will be diminished by my need for vengeance...vengeance that is properly administered only by God. I am OK with that. I know in my heart I can never be the person God wants me to be.
    Don Verna

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  5. #25
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    I'm not having much luck this evening trying to create one of those posts with multiple quotes from multiple other posts, so I shall address you each separately in separate paragraphs.

    First, Ickisrulz -- I am aware of dverna's conversion, and have followed most of his posts and the resulting conversations. I am happy that he is no longer an atheist, and welcome him as a fellow believer. But, corrections to what seem to be ideas not in keeping with our beliefs should be pointed out and corrected. One isn't born, nor does one come into the faith knowing everything. Some of us who have been here for many years don't know it all, and still have things to learn. Some things will, I believe, only be known and clarified following the Resurrection.

    dverna -- I congratulate you on your conversion, and welcome you as a brother. I can not tell you how many times I have attempted to answer a gunsmithing or reloading question, answered it to the best of my ability and in some detail, and then had the original poster say something like, "Oh, I guess I didn't explain the problem clearly," or "There is this fact(s) that I didn't mention," etc. Perhaps we have somewhat the same situation here, and I misunderstood your original post. If so, I apologize -- but the way it is worded calls into question the basic facts of the Gospel as I understand them for the reasons I have already explained.

    DeputyDog25 -- I used to believe exactly as you do, that saved Christians would not be subject to the Great White Throne Judgment." In the last few years I have altered my opinion, as the scriptures do very plainly state that all men shall stand before the throne and give account of themselves. "All men" would have to include us. But, the scriptures also say that the Book of Life shall be opened, and those whose names are found in it will be spared, while those who's names are not found therein shall be thrown into the Lake of Fire. When you accept Christ as your Savior, your name is written into the book. But, as for not being judged, there is no free lunch.

    All three -- let's see how our understanding compares, and if not, what do you base your understanding on. First, when we die, we do not go to heaven or hell. We are dead. Our hope to live again is in the promised Resurrection. The scriptures plainly state the when Christ shall return the dead in Christ shall rise first followed by those who are his at his coming. Obviously, the dead are dead, or there would be no point in resurrecting them. Then follows the millennium during which time Christ and the saints rule the earth for 1,000 years. Then the rest of the dead are resurrected. This is the second Resurrection, and the time of the Great White Throne Judgment. If read closely there are indications that there may be a third Resurrection of those who are incorrigibly evil and who are consigned to the Lake of Fire. After death is thrown into the Lake, and Satan and his demons cast into the Outer Darkness to wander eternally, in his vision St. John saw the New Jerusalem coming down to the earth wherein God and his saints will dwell eternally. Heaven is coming to Earth, mankind will not ascend to where God presently lives and which is called Heaven by many today. The scriptures plainly state that no man has ascended to Heaven except one, who was Christ. Your Gradma is not presently in Heaven playing a harp, she is dead. Something to think about.

    Most humans have a soul, but exactly what that is can be very difficult to determine. In my very poor way I'll try to explain how I see it. One's soul is the gift from God that is received upon conception, the spark of life. It is kind of like the spark from a car battery that travels along the distributor wires and fires the plugs. When the battery is dead, there is no spark. Where does electricity go? No one really can explain it. It exists at the moment as a tiny bit of energy and then is gone...to where? In the case of the soul, upon death it returns to the Maker. Is it held as a separate part of the whole by the Maker and identified as the spark that belonged to John Q., or does it merge into the whole? I can not say. But, upon the Resurrection the spark will be returned and again give life. Rather like jumping the battery. Those who are raised will be raised incorruptible of body, but will again have a soul. Those who are not of Christ and who are raised in the 2nd Resurrection will also again have a soul, but if cast into the Lake of Fire the soul and body will be permanently destroyed. The very good news is that I believe that those in the 2nd Resurrection will have a chance to accept salvation, and when actually viewing the King upon his throne it will be hard not to finally realize that God and Christ do exist, and to chose life rather than death. Even the atheists will be confronted with his reality and find it undeniable. Very few will chose permanent death, given the proof.

    So, I don't get too upset about those who claim to be atheists or agnostics. I'll try to explain it to them once, but I believe that what they reject and deny in this life will be shown to them in the next. Christ did not consign Thomas the Doubter to the flames, he proved the truth of his existence to him by displaying his wounds.

    God bless (please) you fellows for your interest and persistence in trying to discover the Truth. I do not, as a general rule, participate in "deep theological discussions"; not because I know it all, but because as has happened here it is so easy to get a heated discussion going among those who should care about each other, and some things we won't know for certain until Christ returns.

  6. #26
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    I enjoy these threads. I have a question. How long after the Crucifixion was the account written?

  7. #27
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    Der-Gebirgsjager, what I should have said is that we need not fear the judgment for we know where we are spending eternity. We will give a reckoning for how we used the time and resources we were responsible for, as well as our words and actions, but this is how our reward will be established (laying up treasures in Heaven).
    Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

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  8. #28
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    The story of Jesus starts early on in Genesis. God created this wonderful world and put First Man and First woman in charge to run it for God. However man and woman chose to be their own moral authority and decided to rebel against God's moral authority. There was a tempter involved. The rest of the Jewish Scripture tells of the world spinning out of control as sin and rebellion spread through out all humankind. God makes several attempts to correct this sinful rebellion, but each attempt is met with rebuke, by a sinful rebellious human race.

    However in the Genesis story, God tells woman that one of her descendents (a man of sorrows) would crush the snake and destroy evil at it's source. This (man of sorrows) is refered to many times in Jewish Scripture and would come to be known as Messiah (the savior or promised deliverer).

    Christian Scripture tells us that Jesus is indeed this Savior/Messiah and has come to reconcile a sinful world to God by destroying evil at it's source. This is a process and deeply involves the death of Jesus as the mechanism by which this reconcilaton (atonement) is accomplished.

    Therefore, to the Christian, the death of Jesus cannot be overemphasized or overstated. It is heart and core of Biblical faith from the first to the last. Of course to the unbeliver, this is nonsense. But Scripture also tells us that the wisdom of God is foolishness to the people "of" this earth, so I am not concerned about the attitude of non-believers on this subject. Sinful rebellion continues apace!

    This will all work out at God intends. When that happens, there will be both rejoicing among the faithful and great angst and grinding of teeth among the unfaithful, who will say, "Oh spit, this stuff was true all along". I recall over 45 years ago listening to a preacher at a Kentucky Camp Meeting. He said in essence, "Folks who say there is no Hell, will change their minds after being there for 15 seconds.".

    In the meanwhile, we Christians will remain faithful and the unbeliever will do what unbeliever does.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightload View Post
    I enjoy these threads. I have a question. How long after the Crucifixion was the account written?
    That is not an easy question to answer as "Bible Scholars" don't agree. But a little of the backstory would be helpful and then a more or less direct answer to your question.

    After the death of Jesus, what became the Christian movement went into high gear and grew at a very rapid rate. It was at first, considered to be a new branch of the Jewish faith, often refered to as the Cult of the Nazarine. It wasn't until the faith moved out of the Jewish homeland, that the followers of Jesus were first called "Christians", by the believers in Antioch.

    It wasn't until this faith moved from the Jewish world to the Gentile world, that formal writting became needful. The Letters of Paul were among the very first. I hold that Paul's letter to the churches in Galatia is the oldest and probably dates from 30 to 40 years after the death of Jesus. That said, the death and ressurection of Jesus was the central core of the new faith from the very first. The history of the young church (Acts) makes that very clear. However, you asked about the earliest writting and that is the best I can do for you. I hope it makes sense.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Thank you sir.

    To DG,

    I did not explain how I view death....so bear with me please.

    I was a atheist for 5 decades. For an atheist, death is the end. It is final and there is nothing beyond.

    For a believer, death is the end of life, but there is hope of eternal life with God. There is something afterwards.

    I am not sure every believer knows with 100% certainty they will pass judgement. Jesus knew He would be with God after He died....He was assured of eternal life.

    The examples offered by DD25 are important to consider. Imagine being an atheist and sacrificing your life to save others...with no hope or chance of eternal life....what an ultimate sacrifice that is. In my mind, it is different than the sacrifice Jesus made for us. Jesus knew the end of his human life was the beginning of eternal life for all humanity.

    BTW, I wonder how God views an atheist who pays the ultimate price to save others. Does He feel any remorse that someone that selfless and courageous has no place in His kingdom?
    I rejoice in you conversion and like others welcome you to family of God. Let me give a few responses to your post.

    1. For the Christian we have far more than "hope" for continuation of our lives to a new and better existance. We have a certainity, not a hope. This certainity of spoken of numerous places in the New Testament and is known as the Doctrine of Assurance, in Christian theology.

    2. For sure, not every Christian has this assurance, but that does not mean, it is not available and is his/her birthright as a Christian. Many folks stuggle with this, and I have preached many sermons on this issue. Until one has this assurance they will forever be on First Base of the faith. To move on around the bases, one must first settle this issue.

    3. Certainly there are non-believers that do good and worthy thing. Howere we always remember that we are not save by works, but by faith. "If is by faith and not by works, least any man should boast". A right relationship with God, is not about doing good stuff, but ending the rebellion against God, as the supeme moral authority of our lives.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 10-31-2019 at 01:34 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    DD25, I know in my heart I can never be the person God wants me to be.
    None of us can! However, by the Grace of God, I am not the man I was yesterday and tomorrow I will not be the man I today. There is great growth in grace and it is life long. None will every become fully what God wishes us to be, that is why we need a Savior. We can't do it on our own steam! Take heart and savor the joys of each day, God is in charge and it will all come out OK. Becoming what God intends, is not a "do it yourself project". God will get er done!
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 10-31-2019 at 01:51 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    ....I used to believe exactly as you do, that saved Christians would not be subject to the Great White Throne Judgment." In the last few years I have altered my opinion, as the scriptures do very plainly state that all men shall stand before the throne and give account of themselves. "All men" would have to include us.
    I also wrestled with your Biblical questions for a long time (years) and slowly worked my way back to where I started. I finally realised, by misreading that "all men will be judged" as a single event I was sqashishing two certain but very different judgements into one and realized that neither of those judgements is for picking out "winners and losers".

    So, yes, we will all be "judged." But NOT to determine where either group will spend eternity! That is determined by ourselves before we die in the flesh (John 3:17-18). Thus there is no room at the Great White Throne Judgement to include the Judgement Seat of Jesus - the Lord's Bema seat, i.e., a seat for handing out crowns and rewards for good things done in the flesh. The G.W.T. is - and can only be - the legal court for levels of hellish sentencing of the lost for bad things done in the flesh.

    So, yes, all shall be "judged" but not for what it might at first appear!

    Jesus promised his followers His peace, not the temporary/conditional peace of the world. I don't know how anyone could have the Peace of Jesus if we had to wait for a final judgement before learning if we made it or not!

    ... it is so easy to get a heated discussion going among those who should care about each other, and some things we won't know for certain until Christ returns.
    It's easy for us to presume opposing statements of strongly held beliefs is "heated" but I don't believe that such heat happens very often.

  13. #33
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    This is a legitimate question and has a legitimate answer, and Redhawk got it. It needs some elucidation and an understanding of the Trinity.

    For Eternity past the three members of the Trinity held perfect and complete communication - no separation and no disagreement and no contradiction but perfect unity. Since God is pre-existent this literally occurred for an eternity.

    When Christ came his Godhead maintained this unity even as He was on the earth - fully human and fully divine. It was not until the Cross and the exclamation of isolation that this eternal unity was shattered. This was the sacrifice - you are right, the murder of the human body (fully human) was minor compared to this shattering of what had been for an eternity.

    It was not just 'the sacrifice of Jesus' - it was the sacrifice of the Trinity in what it had been. Yes it is re-established, but the original communication was broken.
    Last edited by Wayne Smith; 10-31-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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  14. #34
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    "IMHO, many Christians seem to over rate His sacrifice."

    It would seem that there is more than one way to judge Jesus' sacrifice.

    It must be considered one of the most powerful events in history with the consequences still unfolding to this day. In that way it is not overrated.

    Regarding how much Jesus gave up or suffered. We can never know but it is not obvious that his suffering and loss was greater that the suffering and loss many others experienced before him and since. The suffering and loss is probably more painful for those without faith.

    Jesus was only tortured for a day or so. Many people have been tortured for weeks or months and have been subjected to psychological as well as physical tortures. Jesus had the support of others and his torture was public. I would think that having to face brutal torture in private without the support of friends and family or worse knowing that your friends and family were being tortured in private as well would be much more painful. Or worse yet, your friends and family might be tortured before your very eyes. As horrific as Jesus' crucifixion, others have certainly suffered worse.

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  15. #35
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    dverna - because of what Jesus Christ has done both you and this gentile dog typing this and the others here who have been given the gift of faith by a merciful Creator will one day fall before Him in heaven and praise His Father and Him and His Spirit and become co-heirs with the Son. We are saved by the faith God places in us. Make sure you understand that Jesus Christ is that Creator who walked among men. Paul very clearly points out in Romans that one sin condemns a man simply because he has rebelled against his Creator. One thought of lusting after another mans wife; one thought of murdering someone and you have rebelled and are worthy of destruction. NO ONE merits righteousness before our Creator. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
    Rest assured that the death and resurrection of our Creator is the focal point of space/time/matter and to paraphrase a dead man "compared to the death and resurrection of the Son/Creator all forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance." The only things a man can point to and say "this is mine..., I have done/made this" are his pride and his sins; everything else has been provided to him by his Creator.

    Regarding death, in John 11 v 25 our Creator tells us "I AM the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live even though they die and whoever lives by believing in Me will never die." All men die physically because of their rebellion against their Creator.
    Those given the gift of faith by the Father's decision never experience Spiritual death. Our eternal life began when we were born from above by the Spirit of God at the pleasure of our Creator to extend mercy to us ( John 5 v 24) and we will never experience Death.
    Last edited by wmitty; 11-04-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    DD25,

    I struggle with the fact that everyone who accepts Jesus as their savior will enter heaven, regardless of the sins they have committed or the evil they have done. But so it is written

    My friend sent me the book The Shack. It is about a man whose little girl is taken and murdered. Years later, the father spends time with God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. At the end, God asks the father to forgive the man who murdered his daughter. It made made me think a lot. It showed me how unworthy I am.

    How would/could I spend eternity with the soul of the person who murdered a loved one? I expect my rewards in heaven will be diminished by my need for vengeance...vengeance that is properly administered only by God. I am OK with that. I know in my heart I can never be the person God wants me to be.
    Don, it is very difficult for many to realize the truth of God's mercy and His forgiveness of sin. All He really seems to want is believers and followers, and whatever they did prior to coming to belief really doesn't matter to Him at all. Sure, these people retain the memory of their pasts, but now it's with shame and regret that they view it, NOT with pride and a desire to repeat it. One of my best friends who died not long ago could never really "get" the fact that God's forgiveness is limitless. Had Adolph Hitler come to Him, He'd have forgiven even him. God knows NO limits on his power and abilities. He WON'T do some things, like allow the profane into Heaven. He can't, and still have Heaven be Heaven. Heaven is a place of purity and ultimate grace. Allowing a single profane person/nonbeliever into Heaven would make Heaven not be Heaven any more because it wouldn't be pure any more.

    It took a long time - dedades - for me to realize that the way I was looking at God, and the things He sees, are vastly different. He sees MUCH farther and beyond what I do, and He knows far, far, far more than I do. My job is to trust and obey, and whenever I do that, I profit and am happy. When I go against His direction and advice, I lose and am unhappy. This isn't nuclear medicine, folks. We all too often complicate things well beyond their innate simplicity in reality.

    But fear not. I think most if not all of us have various struggles when we first come to belief. It took me ages to realize how simple it all really is. I thought something so important and so consequential OUGHT to be complex and require much study to see all the things I imagined were there. But Christ gave us a very simple gift - Life, and a desire to see us live it "more abundantly." All we can really do is say "Thank you," and be humble enough and grateful enough to accept it as freely as He gives it. We owe Him everything. We can never repay Him for even one moment of life, or a second of salvation. It's a gift for those who'll simply reach out and accept it as it's given. I guess that a whole lot for us "accountable" humans to get our heads wrapped around? It certainly was for me!

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    Now as to the original question of whether or not Christ's sacrifice of his life on the cross for our sins is over-rated:

    IMO, there is NO WAY His sacrifice could EVER be overestimated, because it is the difference between our existence and having been eliminated from the face of the earth 2,000 years ago! The only way to underestimate the significance and importance of what Christ did for us is to regard our presence here as an "infestation" rather than a gift from God, largely due to Christ's sacrifice. That's my view, at least. We even mark time on our calendars by that day He died for OUR sins. He was sinless - pristine and unblemished. And He laid down his perfect life so that we sinners might yet live, and He gave us another chance to make good His plans for us.

    If you've never had a 2nd chance at something, you may not appreciate the tremendous impact His death had on the entire universe since then. But He did it, and it's real, and we are all so VERY much better off for it. It is THE crucial step in our still being here on earth. Praise the Lord!

  18. #38
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    I don't question these accounts, I just believe. For no man can decide what God can and cannot do or would or wouldn't do OR should or shouldn't do. God does what HE wants when, where, how and why. If you trust Him then you don't ask questions. I am alive today because of Him, and I will die one day because of Him-but only in the flesh!
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Jesus “died” on the cross for our sins. But God cannot die....Jesus certainly suffered but He did not die.

    IMHO, many Christians seem to over rate His sacrifice.

    When I was an atheist, I had no illusions of everlasting life, yet I would have died to save my children. I think every decent person would do the same.

    Jesus “died” knowing he would not die....not much sacrifice there. Jesus “died” to provide a path to salvation for billions of God’s children. We would die to save one of our children.

    Should we be grateful that He gave us a way to salvation....CERTAINLY!!

    Was it much of a sacrifice....not in the big scheme of things.
    Have you contemplated that Jesus personal sacrifice wasn't in a physical death.

    The Son had never been separated from the Father and Holy Spirit until he took the form of man( the creation). In that form he was born into this world of a woman, as we all are, was tempted to sin, as we all fail, yet he was the perfect man. He could be a sacrifice because he was without sin. The death we see was only a part of the sacrifice, his true sacrifice was in leaving the ethereal realm with God the Father to become flesh in this world, separated from the Father, yet to return gloriously to the Father. He prayed that if there where any other way, let it pass! He was just like we are, his physical body didn't want to die, but that was the only way THE plan could be fulfilled. Jesus had the power to stay alive, he chose death to purchase us! This suffering a human death, then rising and "returning to the Father" is the first fruit of the plan where we can be reconciled to the Father, God, by the sacrifice of the Son, Jesus. It seems his physical death is what you are referring to, and your not totally off base, because we all die a physical death. A good death or a bad death, who knows, but NONE OF US will die having lived a righteous life to purchase fellowship with God the Father.
    Something to think about.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    3,648
    Thank you gentlemen for reaching out and helping me gain greater understanding by sharing your insights and thoughts.

    This past weekend I spent time with a member of the church I attend. He told me his “break through” happened when he stopped asking questions and simply accepted things. He hopes many of his questions will be answered when he faces God, but if not, he accepts that God may not answer them all.

    I am a long way from that “break through”. There are days I am stronger in my faith than other days. Even when studying parts of the Bibles that make no rational sense to me, I never doubt the existence of the Holy Trinity. God is the Creator, Jesus died on the cross for our salvation, and the Holy Spirit works within man.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check