Hunting With clean(cold bore)

[Themoose]

Need some advice from experienced hunters please. I am going to hunt elk using a 45-70. My concern is shooting accurately with a clean bore without a fouling shot. I will be shooting some cold bore shots prior to the hunt trying to see if the shot will be consistent...but, just in case they are not, what can be done to help.... I have heard a couple of remedies, lockeze or WD40....
I thought of fouling the bore and just wiping the day before, but the hunt starts on Monday and range is closed on Sunday.

[Lead pot]

That is something you really should work out yourself. Most of my rifles will hit point of aim from a clean dry barrel that a clean dry patch cleaned out before leaving home. Leaving oil in the bore the first shot will wander out.
Take that rifle to the range or back yard and shoot it to see what it does. I see posts from people getting ready for a hunt will pull the rifle out of the safe or closet once a year for the hunt and chase for miles the game after making a bad hit.
Shoot that rifle at your expected distance you limit your self for game shots and find out where that first shot hits.

[Themoose]

I do plan on doing exactly what you suggest, but I was trying to get info in case the cold bore shots were not consistent

[Chill Wills]

I find that a clean barrel will put the first shot about 2-MOA higher than the following shots when blow-tubing in a match and the same for shooting dirty when just shooting paper.
In hunting at the ranges we shoot BPCR, two MOA is not much and if you know that the rifle will print a little high you can incorporate that into your sight picture. Pretty easy really. Anyways, it works well for me.
Good luck on your hunt.

[Wayne Smith]

If cold bore shots are truly inconsistent take another rifle and find out what is wrong with this one. Usually the issue is that the cold bore shot is different from fouled/warm bore shots. I would sight in where the cold bore shoots and adapt for any needed followup shots. How often do you get a second shot when hunting, after all?

[country gent]

I would sight in for the cold clean bore, To me hunting this is the most important shot when hunting. Think about it the very first shot should be your only shot needed. I would sight in for the clean cold bore and compensate for the second if needed.

Sighting in for this can be a long slow process. fire a round, clean, and wait for it to cool down to normal again. But done right it gives the best chance of first shot success there is.

[yeahbub]

This is my experience with this very problem. Maybe it will provide something useful for you. I had a .22 rifle which would shoot left from a dry clean bore. After the first shot, the rest of them would gp where they were supposed to, but this was an annoyance. It left me firing a fouling shot when entering the woods before a squirrel hunt which seemed a waste to me and by accident I finally found something which put the first one where it was supposed to go. The trick was to run a patch down the bore lightly anointed with LPS-3 corrosion preventive the night before. I could count on the first shot being on point of aim. LPS-3 leaves a coating of soft petroleum wax similar in consistency to the lube on rimfire ammo. Problem solved. Note, however, that while it's a petroleum product, it is a wax, not an oil and has no ill effect when used with BP. Years of using it for bore protection in my muzzle-loader and loading the first shot without removing it from the bore showed me that. It slowly stiffens over months, so I renew it the day before the competition or hunt. For anti-corrosion it's rated at two years protection and I never had rust in the bore from long term storage.

[Toymaker]

My Pedersoli Rolling Block 45-70 will shoot 2 inches high between 11 o'clock and 1 at 100 yards from a clean, cold bore.
UNLESS...…………..
I run a clean patch through the bore, turn it over and run it through again. Then scrub the bore with a patch soaked with my bullet lube.
THEN
It'll core the X out of the 10 ring.

[jednorris]

I guess I am in the minority as I would think it is a moot point. The lung area of an Elk is about 14" in diameter and lung hits are what usually down an animal. If you put your bullet within 7" of where you are aiming, you got a dead Elk.

[indian joe]

I guess I am in the minority as I would think it is a moot point. The lung area of an Elk is about 14" in diameter and lung hits are what usually down an animal. If you put your bullet within 7" of where you are aiming, you got a dead Elk.

hunting ---need to be 100% convinced that the boolit will go exactly where its sposed to go - first shot is the money shot - go in the woods with a gun you know is off on the first shot = ya got a readymade excuse for nerves, out of breath, flinching, buck fever, whatever you want to call it = gonna come home empty handed or worse loose one wounded.

[M-Tecs]

I guess I am in the minority as I would think it is a moot point. The lung area of an Elk is about 14" in diameter and lung hits are what usually down an animal. If you put your bullet within 7" of where you are aiming, you got a dead Elk.

I agree 100% to a point. In this case the OP is using a 45/70 so the yardage will proably be well under 200 yards so unless the gun load combo is unusual it is a moot point. Some simple testing will address that issue.

I have chambered over a hundred match rifles and I have tested a lot them for cold clean bore verse fouled hot bores. I have never seen more that a 2 1/2 MOA shift. Normally it's 1 to 2 MOA with an oiled but patched clean bore. As long as your cleaning routine is the same it is consistent and predictable but different techniques and products does greatly affect the amount of POI shift. After a fair amount of testing I have been using Birchwood Casey Sheath rust preventive since that seem to be the best of the product I have tested for POI shift. Since I mostly build NRA Highpower across the cross and long range rifles I also test for any heat related walking issues.

I will have to test LPS-3 on rimfires and cast bullet guns. As yeahbub stated it leaves a waxy film so it may be better suited to rimfires and cast bullets, but I will test it against Sheath in jacketed next spring.

I have only tested one 45/70 with jacketed bullets. That is my Marlin guide gun that shoots way better than it should. From clean cold to very hot it will hold 1 MOA for five shots at 100 yards.

With my BPCR's with lubed cast and BP I get about 2 MOA POI shift. Next year I plan on trying paper patch so I am interest to see if that is the same or different.

For military snipers and long range hunters or long range competitors cold clean verse hot fouled becomes a very significant issue.

[Themoose]

To all that have replied, I thank you. My question was to question a "what if" with cold bore consisentacy were an issue. I spent 5 hours at the range today shooting sixteen shots with cleaning between shots. 8 shots @ 50 yards and 8 shots @ 100 yards. MOA of elk was fine. Appears to be only about an inch higher group than five shot strings shot previously. Groups were a little bigger, but again very acceptable and predictable with no wild fliers. Time well spent and my confidence level is up...next step is to repeat test, moving out to 200 yards. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.
Kindest regards,
TheMoose

[KCSO]

First shot with a clean DRY bore is about 1 to 1 1/2inches off at 100 yards in my 45-70 and that has been close enough so far. If you are that close you won't have any problems hitting a deer or bigger target in the boiler room.

[Themoose]

Good to go! Shot out to 200 yds today. Only had one wild one( either completely of target or in same hole). I think was wild ,.,. I forgot to run a couple dry patches thru it to remove oil from cleaned barrel. I am kind of glad that happened, now I know to make sure to wipe completely dry before first shot. I don't know about you folks, but I have learned more from my mistakes ..and in my life, I learn every day. Again thanks to all who replied.
TheMoose the

[Slugster]

I had a problem with a Remington 700 in '06 that would print the first round 2" outside the normal group hot, cold, dirty, clean, with complete predictability. Drove me nuts. Tried everything, bedded action, floated barrel, worked with my load, different powder, primer, case, seating depths, you name it, nothing worked. Had a friend who had a Sendero that would not shoot worth a darn, and he had heard of cryogenically freezing rifle barrels to stress relieve them and wanted me to pull his barrel and send it out for the treatment. I sent my '06 barreled receiver (had 01 FFL for 18 years) and his .300 Rem. Mag barrel to 300 Below (I have no relationship with them other than satisfied customer) and got them back in less than 2 weeks. Reassembled both rifles, went to the range and to my complete surprise both rifles would shoot one ragged hole groups. My '06 would put all shots into one group instead of 4 shots in really close proximity and the usual flyer. The Sendero was stunningly accurate. Could cover five shots at 100 yds with a dime. Really good considering that before treatment it would do at best about 2.5 to 3 inches on a good day. It really showed its stuff at 400 yards with 10 rounds into a 1 1/4" group. Benchresters wouldn't even bat an eye at this level of accuracy, but for a couple of average deer rifles, I was impressed. My 700 has over 3500 rounds through it and still shoots consistently 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups.

[Dapaki]

I run about 1.75" high from a cold clean bore in my 4570 from 100 yds. The rest end up about 1.5" in a group as long as I remember to squeeze and not jerk. Warmth doesn't seem to matter though, I think it's the dryness of the bore (I really don't know what to call it) since I can "clean" it between shots and still keep them in the same group. Only the first shot will go high.

[jednorris]

Shooting and cleaning is one point, the other is practicing with the barrel as cold as it will be during Elk season.