Substitute 7/8oz Lee Slug for 7/8oz Buckbuster?

[Comfy]

Is it possible to substitute a 7/8oz Lee Key Drive Slug for a 7/8oz Buckbuster?

The load data I am looking at is from Hodgdon:
2 3/4" Remington Hull
23gr Universal Powder
Win209 Primer
WAA12 Wad
7/8oz Buckbuster

I can't seem to find any information on the Buckbuster slug, so any help would be much appreciated.

[Markopolo]

welcome to the forum....

generally, shotgun stuff goes by payload with a few exceptions. With all things being the same, I would shoot a 7/8oz lee slug in place of the Buckbuster... check the height of your colum and crimp, and you should be fine.. pretty sure you wont be thrilled with the accuracy past 50 yards though... Most here will atest to that.

Perhaps Hogtamer, Ajay, or Longbow will chime in and set things straight... they are some of the many Guru's in this section...

Marko

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, it is safe to use 7/8 oz buckbuster data for the 7/8 oz lee slugs.

[TjB101]

Yes to substitution for weight.

Rifled or smooth bore? If rifled barrel you really need to check the fit of the wad/slug in your barrel. 12SL’s were the only wad that I had that would ‘fit’ my Mossberg rifled 835 barrel.

If smooth bore still check fit but you have more leeway on most wad/slug combos.

[longbow]

Not sure if I have any load data for 7/8 oz. Buckbuster (I do for 1 oz.) but other than selecting a wad for fit (see Ajay's posts on slug/wad to bore fit ~ search SuperBlazingSabots) I'd be quite comfortable subbing weight for weight and using Lee 7/8 oz. slug or other 7/8 oz. slug data... or vice versa, whichever way you are going. Okay, reading again you have Buckbuster data and want to use a Lee slug. I should pay more attention when I read! I suspect the WAA12 wad will have a deep cup so you may have to either cut petals back to slug length or add nitro card wads to raise the slug up in the wad. It all depends on wad column height for crimp.

If you have a selection of wads or access then I'd try several to find best slug/wad to bore fit and for wad column height for crimp.

The Lee Drive Key is supposed to grip the wad for rifled guns to ensure the slug spins with the wad in the rifling but for smoothbore you are better off to put a nitro card wad under the slug to keep the wad from pushing into the cavity. Likely depends on wads but I've had wads crack when they deform around the drive key so use a 16 ga. nitro card wad in the shotcup under the slug. I fill regular Foster HB slugs with hot melt glue for the same reason... to keep wads out of the HB!

Other than that you should be good to go with Lee 7/8 oz. slug and Buckbuster load data.

Longbow

[Comfy]

Thank you for the input, I'm just waiting on the wads to arrive. I've got nitro cards on hand.

My first attempt at reloading these slugs was unsuccessful. I wanted to use Unique because I already have it for 9mm. So I went to Alliant Powder's website and found a 1 1/8oz shot load with Fiocchi hulls and Claybuster Windjammer wads. I figured that would be a very safe starting point to increase the powder charge from. Unfortunately, I think Unique doesn't burn fast enough for such a light load; I was getting unburnt powder in the bore, a "fwoosh" instead of a "bang" and one complete dud. The wads were getting scorched black, their bases were blown out on one side and the pedals were being sheered off.

My take on this failure is a combination of using cheap, tapered wads in a straight wall hull (I tried a 1" square of newspaper on the base of the wad) with a powder unsuited for a 7/8oz load. But, I am inexperienced, so I'm curious what your guys' take on this is. I would like to find a use for the leftover Fiocchi hulls I've now got.

I'll be shooting out of my 870 with a smooth bore.

Thanks again!

[centershot]

Thank you for the input, I'm just waiting on the wads to arrive. I've got nitro cards on hand.

My first attempt at reloading these slugs was unsuccessful. I wanted to use Unique because I already have it for 9mm. So I went to Alliant Powder's website and found a 1 1/8oz shot load with Fiocchi hulls and Claybuster Windjammer wads. I figured that would be a very safe starting point to increase the powder charge from. Unfortunately, I think Unique doesn't burn fast enough for such a light load; I was getting unburnt powder in the bore, a "fwoosh" instead of a "bang" and one complete dud. The wads were getting scorched black, their bases were blown out on one side and the pedals were being sheered off.

My take on this failure is a combination of using cheap, tapered wads in a straight wall hull (I tried a 1" square of newspaper on the base of the wad) with a powder unsuited for a 7/8oz load. But, I am inexperienced, so I'm curious what your guys' take on this is. I would like to find a use for the leftover Fiocchi hulls I've now got.

I'll be shooting out of my 870 with a smooth bore.

Thanks again!

Unique is a good powder for heavy 1-1/8oz. loads, something around 24 grains IIRC. But, it wants a certain pressure level to burn properly, as do all powders. That 24 gr. load is running 1200 fps, making it a 3 dram equivalent load, call it a heavy trap load. If you want something lighter you pretty much have to change powders, personally this is where I go to Red Dot. Randy Buchanan, another contributor here, prefers Green Dot. Burning rates of these Alliant powders, from fastest to slowest, are Red Dot, Green Dot Unique, Herco, then Blue Dot for magnum loads. I'm "old school" so these are the ones I stick with, even though there are other, newer, powders available. Your description of your results pretty much says "change powder".

[longbow]

Hah! I did much the same thing when I got my Lee 7/8 oz. mould. I picked a load for 1 oz. slug (IIRC but heavier payload anyway) using Unique figuring it would be fast enough for the lighter 7/8 oz. payload... WRONG! Some went "BANG" like they should but some made "WHOOSH" noises and a couple just kinda "POPPED". The rounds that got a good burn and went "BANG" were reasonably accurate and felt like a normal slug load but those that didn't "BANG" obviously didn't get a complete burn and shot poorly.

Next time I used Green Dot under those slugs. The reason I tried Unique is that I have a lot and since it seems so versatile I thought it would do for the lighter slug, and I only have a small amount of Green Dot on hand so didn't want to use it under slugs since it is my choice for birdshot loads and I have limited powder selection and availability locally. Oh well... faster powder it is under those slugs. If not Green Dot I'll have to find another or order in.

Petals being sheared off may be due to blow by, too tight slug/wad fit or both. I once tried using shotcups that I had cut gas seals off for full bore slug loads and loaded wad slugs in the shotcups over a nitro card and hard card wad column. There was enough gas leakage to burn and stretch wad petals. They didn't really look like they'd sheared but they were in bad shape and some missing. Shearing is usually due to too tight a slug/wad to barrel fit or too much "slugging up" in the bore due to soft slug or unfilled cavity. The lesson there is that plastic gas seals do a far better job of sealing hot gas than nitro card wads do! Far Better!!

Longbow

[centershot]

That petal-shearing thing; That's not necessarily a bad thing. That commonly happens to me with my "Centershot Sabot" load (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...tershot+sabots) but I'm still putting my rounds into 2 to 2-1/2' groups @ 50 yds. I agree it's better if it doesn't happen, but, at least in my case, it doesn't have negative effects. Or, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way; Mayne they would all go into one jagged 1" hole if the petals didn't shear! LOL! In any case I'm blessed to have a load that shoots so well!

This is typically what I get, the 2nd and 3rd are missing one petal and the 5th has one that is almost ready to go bye-bye. Personally, I believe this is due to the nitro card cutting through. These are Federal 12S3 wads, they're stoutly built with petals that mike .029" at the ball's equator.

Attachment 250325

[Markopolo]

that federal 12s3 is a pretty good all around tuff wad... i use them in all sorts of endeavors...

marko

[longbow]

Warning! Warning! Thread drift ahead!

Centershot:

When you load up those "centershot sabot" loads do you use one strip of paper or two (like cross patches?).

I used cloth patching cut in squares then "muzzleloaded" 0.662" RB's into hulls with wads inserted. That was one of my better loads for accuracy from smoothbore. I haven't tried it in a rifled gun but will try in my rifled choke tube once I finish the barrel adapter and silver solder it to my old single shot.

Now to get back on track... as for wads, I have generally found that badly damaged or sheared petals = poor accuracy. Not always but usually. Some others such as yourself and 725 have done well even though wads don't look so good. 725 loads a 0.702" RB into shotcup and gets very good accuracy as well. I suspect you guys are pushing those wads to the ragged edge but not over as it is working well for you.

I have not been shooting for a while now but will get back to it. I have to put an order into BPI so will include some Federal 12s3 wads. So far the general consensus is that they are a very good wad. I can't recall having sheared petals with undersized patched RB's. I have had sheared petals with 0.690" RB even in wads that had thin petals and fit the bore well.

So far no problems with sheared petals and Lee slugs. Also, so far I have only cast Lee slugs from wheelweights or range scrap, no pure lead tried yet. Not sure if slug hardness makes a significant difference but it might as the soft lead should slug up where wheelweights likely will not or certainly not as much.

Longbow

[centershot]

longbow,
I cut my patch from NRA targets, 0.5" x 2.0" x 0.011" thick, and insert it into the shotcup on top of the nitro card after the shotcup is seated into the hull. The ball is then inserted, the patch surrounds the ball at it's circumference, not underneath it as a muzzleloader patch would. This adds 0.022" to the diameter of the payload. It falls off as soon as it leaves the muzzle. The payload O.D. is 0.742", so yeah, it's squeezin' the bejeezer's outa' that 12S3!

[longbow]

Okay, gotcha! You are using a "cylinder" inside the wad. I've done that too. Don't know why I didn't assume that's what you meant. Duh! Old wrinkled brain misfires now and again (getting more frequent these days!).

Those Federal wads do seem to have thick petals! 0.742"-0.662"-0.022" = 0.058" so 0.029" thick petals. That could explain a few things! Got to order me some of those and give them a go.

My Lee slugs are a bit loose in the Winchester and Claybuster wads I have currently so I've taken to adding the paper cylinder inside using about 0.004" printer paper. I'm thinking there is some advantage to using a slightly undersize ball or slug then "shimming" up to good fit. That way a guy can get custom fit to whatever wad and bore he has. Its a little more work but not a lot.

Thanks,
Longbow

[Frosty Boolit]

I tried the 7/8 lee slug with a nitro hull, w209 primer, waa12SL wad with 1/8 nitro card and 18.5gr of red dot. Every one went bang and the recoil was light. I didn't chronograph so I don't know its speed.