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Thread: Clays 9mm Load data?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy


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    Clays 9mm Load data?

    Anyone have book data for 124gr LRN using Hodgdon Clays?

    Side note, Havent seen any data for "PCLRN"... so when loading powder coated bullets what do you use for load data?

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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    The closest thing I could find was in a Lee book, it was for a 125 Gr. Jacketed, 3.5-3.7 gr of Clays. Not sure if this helps or not.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy


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    Ya, I appreciate the reply, but I'm betting the cast and jacketed data are gonna be different. Every time I've seen cast and jacketed data for the same weight they have been...

    I'm assuming PC load data would at most be equal to a plated bullet, but you know what they say about assuming. Lol

    That being said I'd be more comfortable using lead cast data than jacketed.

    I wish I woulda paid attention to what book I looked at at Fin Feather and Fur. I know I saw load data for Clays in 124 LRN, but I'm not positive what book it was in. Something tells me it was the Hornaday book...



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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    Found this bottom of the pic for 125gr lead
    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    According to my records I had worked up a load with 3.2 gr. Clays and 124 gr. Bayou Bullets, which are Hi-Tek coated. 3" groups at 25 yards, pretty mild recoil.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    PC loads exactly like lubed lead. So not having data, go with starting jacketed for the weight you have & work it up.
    FWIW, not a huge fan of CLays unless they are pure low vel target loads. Clays gets weird when you start pushing the top end loads & pressure spikes are not unheard of.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Hodgdon shows data for 125gr lead, Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node

    2.7 - 3.0 MAX for a Berrys Bullet HBRN TP ( < a Copper Plated Hollow Base Round Nose Thick Plate - https://www.hevsbulletsandmore.com/9mm-124-GR-HBRN-TP-p/ber15143.htm)

    Hodgdon
    Clays
    .356"
    1.150"
    2.7
    791
    27,900 PSI
    3.0
    857
    31,200 PSI

    Start low & work up...


    { It is likely I could go downstairs to my reloading area & get more data for just Lead RN, but it will have to wait until tomorrow or another time. )
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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Lagamor's Avatar
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    I agree with Fred. I love Clays in a 12 gauge, but there are much better choices for pistol.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagamor View Post
    I agree with Fred. I love Clays in a 12 gauge, but there are much better choices for pistol.
    Call me cheap, but why go spend money on powder when you have 3+ pounds of clays laying around? Especially when its just steel target plinking ammo?

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  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake McCracken View Post
    Call me cheap, but why go spend money on powder when you have 3+ pounds of clays laying around? Especially when its just steel target plinking ammo?

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    Exactly.

    I found this thread via a search, and just wanted to say thanks to the gents that provided pictures of actual loading manual data. I've given up on shotshell reloading, and am trying to find pistol data for the various shotgun powders I have. Got my Red Dot loads figured out, and now thanks to this thread, my two pounds of Clays isn't going to go to waste.
    "Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Just curious as to why you gave up on shotshell reloading?

    I have Ransom Rest tested Clays on several 9mm PC bullets as well as copper jacketed bullets and gotten very poor results across the board. The greatest charge I tried was 3.6 grains of Clays with a 124 grain PC bullet average Muzzle Velocity 1145 fps. 5 round group size was so bad I didn't bother to measure, maybe I should have said pattern size. The variation was only 12 fps for the rounds. Overall very light loads performed better, but based on my testing Clay's is a poor powder choice for 9mm.

    Clays did get better with a 45 ACP, but even so there were so many other powders that gave excellent results compared to Clays it lost out there too. If you are going to use up the Clays, 4.2 grains with a 200 grain bullet grouped 2-1/2" out of a Ransom Rest Kimber Gold Match 45 at 25 yards, average MV=759 fps. group sizes increased as the charge was increased following the trend that it performed better with lighter charges.

    As far as load data you will find that due to decreased friction of PC, muzzle velocity will be about 5% greater with a PC bullet vs a copper Jacketed bullet. Also due to less friction gun barrels will run cooler. I personally start out developing my load data for a PC bullet using book or online copper jacketed load data for the same weight bullet.

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    I use Hodgdon's website.

    https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Just curious as to why you gave up on shotshell reloading?

    I have Ransom Rest tested Clays on several 9mm PC bullets as well as copper jacketed bullets and gotten very poor results across the board. The greatest charge I tried was 3.6 grains of Clays with a 124 grain PC bullet average Muzzle Velocity 1145 fps. 5 round group size was so bad I didn't bother to measure, maybe I should have said pattern size. The variation was only 12 fps for the rounds. Overall very light loads performed better, but based on my testing Clay's is a poor powder choice for 9mm.

    Clays did get better with a 45 ACP, but even so there were so many other powders that gave excellent results compared to Clays it lost out there too. If you are going to use up the Clays, 4.2 grains with a 200 grain bullet grouped 2-1/2" out of a Ransom Rest Kimber Gold Match 45 at 25 yards, average MV=759 fps. group sizes increased as the charge was increased following the trend that it performed better with lighter charges.

    As far as load data you will find that due to decreased friction of PC, muzzle velocity will be about 5% greater with a PC bullet vs a copper Jacketed bullet. Also due to less friction gun barrels will run cooler. I personally start out developing my load data for a PC bullet using book or online copper jacketed load data for the same weight bullet.
    Five spine surgeries in the last four years kinda put an end to my trap shooting days.

    I can still shoot pistols fine, and can handle lighter rifles for a bit, but my first love (shotguns, and especially trap) is a no-no. Between surgeries, I told the Doc I was doing some trap shooting as physical therapy. He replied very firmly that my trap shooting days were done. I was hoping that he'd end up being wrong, but I now have to concur with the good Doc... I'm done.

    I have a 30+ year old Pacific 366 progressive shot shell press that I've kept in pretty darn good condition over the years, and have enough spare parts for it to about put together a second one. My son doesn't want to pursue the shotgun sports, and would rather have the money out of the reloader to put into something he'll shoot, so it's going to go up for sale at some point (gents, please don't PM me about it, as I'm not ready to part with it quite yet).

    Thanks for the test results with Clays in 9mm; you have put a lot of work into it, and I see no reason to re-invent the wheel. I think I'll donate the Clays to a buddy that still shoots a lot of trap and sporting clays.
    "Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlier View Post
    Five spine surgeries in the last four years kinda put an end to my trap shooting days.
    Thanks for the test results with Clays in 9mm; you have put a lot of work into it, and I see no reason to re-invent the wheel. I think I'll donate the Clays to a buddy that still shoots a lot of trap and sporting clays.
    Wow, you got me beat by one. I am trying to recover from my recent cervical surgery, but as far as I am concerned the surgery went as they say in the military *****, after 2 months I am taking nerve pain killers 24/7 just to knock the edge off the pain waiting for my neurologist to figure out what to do now as the cervical plate secured by two screws, that obviously were not secure, so the plate has shifted. So at the present I am not even doing handgun, much less rifle or shotgun. Of course a round of skeet and it would answer the question of what to do now. I had a cervical surgery 10 years ago and was back at work the following week, feeling great, but that was a different doctor who was the top rated neurosurgeon in Houston. Unfortunately he is retired.

    I would agree Clay's would best be used for shotgun as it would take a long time to shoot it up in a 45.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Wow, you got me beat by one. I am trying to recover from my recent cervical surgery, but as far as I am concerned the surgery went as they say in the military *****, after 2 months I am taking nerve pain killers 24/7 just to knock the edge off the pain waiting for my neurologist to figure out what to do now as the cervical plate secured by two screws, that obviously were not secure, so the plate has shifted. So at the present I am not even doing handgun, much less rifle or shotgun. Of course a round of skeet and it would answer the question of what to do now. I had a cervical surgery 10 years ago and was back at work the following week, feeling great, but that was a different doctor who was the top rated neurosurgeon in Houston. Unfortunately he is retired.

    I would agree Clay's would best be used for shotgun as it would take a long time to shoot it up in a 45.
    Ah, so you're most likely taking Gabepentin for that nerve pain. I've been taking that damndable drug for almost five years now. Side effects are gawd-aweful, but it does help to take the edge off of the nerve pain.

    I'm still taking 90(!) mg of oxycodone per day, one 5mg oxymorphone ER pill every 12 hours, and that horrible gabepentin.

    I now have three cervical fusions, and five lumbar fusions. Doc is trying to put off doing a bilateral four level foraminotomy in the cervical spine as long as possible, as that surgery is even bigger than the triple lumbar fusion I had. During one of my lumbar surgeries, the doc screwed up and took the fusion hardware out of two levels that hadn't fused all the way. After getting progressively worse, I went to another doc that informed me that there were no fusions at those two levels, and I had been walking around with a broken back at two levels for nearly a year. This caused some permanent nerve damage, hence the need for the continued pain management. He went in and replaced the fusion hardware, and revised an existing fusion at another level. Results were as good as you can expect, it's just a matter of waiting to see how well the nerves will recover.

    I still have quite a bit of lost leg usage, especially in my left leg, and the nerve pain shoots down my lower back and through the front (down to the knees) of both legs. At 52, I walk like I'm 80... embarrassing to even walk in public.

    But it's the cervical area that is preventing me from shooting trap.

    I apologize for the thread drift. I really do appreciate the Clays information, and Dragonheart, my brother.... prayers sent your way. No one can ever understand what it's like to have true nerve pain unless they've experienced it firsthand; it is truly it's own special level of Hell.

    And that was probably waaay too much information, but when you're dealing with daily pain, it helps to know that there are others that are highly sympathetic to your situation. And Dragonheart, that would definitely be me.

    We now resume our normal programming... for those of you old enough to remember that saying.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Since I think all that have tried Clay's would agree there are much better choices for a 9 mm so I think this thread is dead anyway.

    So Yes, Gabapentin a double edged sword. About the best for nerve pain , but higher doses most definitely will play heck with short term memory, like an old person needs that. I would suggest two other drugs; the old standby Lyrica during the day, which seems to work well taken in conjunction with a low doses of Gabapentin. A low dose of Nortriptyline at night also seems to be more effective when taken with a low dose of Gabapentin. Nortriptyline of 150mg and higher doses is used to treat depression. All three work differently so I think that is why the combination seem more effective.

    Fortunately, my neurologist is at the top of his field in the nation and is able to keep me reasonably comfortable. He is also my long time shooting buddy so we see each other or talk regularly. I have never had a medial question on any subject he could not answer.

    Mm neurologist was very concerned about permanent damage so I needed surgery as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I went for quick and first available surgeon and hospital instead of finding the best doctor in the best hospital and now I am paying for my stupidity, at least I know I made a stupid decision.

    Moreover I can see that our medical field is changing and not for the better. I think the dumbing down of the education system by just passing everyone on regardless, has now saturated the medical fields and incompetence not only flourishes it is accepted and protected. Ever try finding any negative information about a doctor or hospital? You can find more information about a mattress than a person that holds your life in his hands!

    I wish you the best, and stay optimistic. A pessimist is a person who thinks things can't get any worse an optimist knows thy can.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Phlier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Since I think all that have tried Clay's would agree there are much better choices for a 9 mm so I think this thread is dead anyway.

    So Yes, Gabapentin a double edged sword. About the best for nerve pain , but higher doses most definitely will play heck with short term memory, like an old person needs that. I would suggest two other drugs; the old standby Lyrica during the day, which seems to work well taken in conjunction with a low doses of Gabapentin. A low dose of Nortriptyline at night also seems to be more effective when taken with a low dose of Gabapentin. Nortriptyline of 150mg and higher doses is used to treat depression. All three work differently so I think that is why the combination seem more effective.

    Fortunately, my neurologist is at the top of his field in the nation and is able to keep me reasonably comfortable. He is also my long time shooting buddy so we see each other or talk regularly. I have never had a medial question on any subject he could not answer.

    Mm neurologist was very concerned about permanent damage so I needed surgery as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I went for quick and first available surgeon and hospital instead of finding the best doctor in the best hospital and now I am paying for my stupidity, at least I know I made a stupid decision.

    Moreover I can see that our medical field is changing and not for the better. I think the dumbing down of the education system by just passing everyone on regardless, has now saturated the medical fields and incompetence not only flourishes it is accepted and protected. Ever try finding any negative information about a doctor or hospital? You can find more information about a mattress than a person that holds your life in his hands!

    I wish you the best, and stay optimistic. A pessimist is a person who thinks things can't get any worse an optimist knows thy can.
    Completely agree with your entire post!

    And yeah, you absolutely gotta stay positive. My family has been so supportive... they've just been amazing. And I got to spend a lot of time with them that I otherwise wouldn't have.

    I'm improving so fast that I think I'll be returning to work this spring.

    Life is good, and it's getting better.
    "Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check