Lee expander solution?

[Jniedbalski]

I use my lee single stage press and most of my dies are made by lee. All die makers make there dies for fmj it’s just what most people load. There are cowboy dies that are the same except the expander die is bigger for lead bullets. I load a lot of lead bullets with my lee dies but to do it first you must do this . Get lee to make you a over sized expander. If you don’t want to do this get lee’s universal expander. This only bells the mouth so then buy noe’s expander plug. This worked on every oversized lead pistol bullet I ever used it on. I still use the lee universal expander when I want a bigger flare on the case mouth than the noe will give me. The noe expander will expand the inside of the case so it doesn’t shave or swage down lead bullets. You won’t believe the size difference I found in brass thickness between different brands of brass. You can actually feel it. I did a box of different 38 brass and the 38 wad cutter brass barley even touched the noe’s expander die. Some brass was really hard in and out of the sizer. Lee will make you a larger one also. Just measure your expander and go two to three thousands bigger. On my 38 special wad cutter brass I use noe’s I think it’s .355x .359 or .360 sizer works good for wad cutter bullets.

[Kenstone]

The OP was asking about shaving, not swaging. Different symptoms and different problems/results. Very soft bullets may be swaged, but there should be no strips of lead after seating. I have loaded 9mm cases with .359" flat based bullets of my "normal" 11-12 BHN bullet alloy after running them through my Lee sizing die. Removed bullet and measured, no swaging noticeable...

I started reloading way pre web and I just didn't know my Lee tools/equipment was no good. I learned I could not get decent results or any lasting life out of my Lee presses and dies when I started looking in on reloading forums. I just didn't know my tools/equipment was junk and wouldn't last 30 years. I guess I'll have to get all new stuff, and toss my Lee stuff I bought in the '70s (nah!)...

Shaving/Swaging
No he didn't mention Swaging but did say a pulled bullet measured 0.3555", a bullet that was 0.357/0.358" dia. before seating...
So swaging along with shaving is a distinct possibility given the size of the bullet.
Swaging has been mentioned in the past, it's something I have personally experienced, and for those seating oversize cast/coated bullets in 9mm, using the 38S&W expander has become a common practice/workaround.

[Jniedbalski]

Also NOE’S makes a 380 auto pistole sizer. It’s like 6.95$ get this one and get the next one up in size. I got 4 38 expanders and only use mostly the two. But there cheap

[kmw1954]

Since you are relatively new at this reloading thing, I would suggest that you read your Lee instructions for setting up your dies. .

Thanks, but to be clear I am not "New" to reloading. Just new to cast lead bullets.

Here is were I am presently at after seeing the shavings on the final product. First I increased the flair and decreased the crimp with no effect. I then took a finished round and pulled the bullet. From the base of the bullet all the way up to where the crimp would be the bullet is shiny all the way around like it was run through a sizer, all the tumble lube has been stripped off.. I then removed the expanding die and the powder measure and reset the die all the way down to the shell holder and reset the powder measure so it was all the way down as well. Tried again with still no improvement and still a sliver of lead around the case mouth.

On have I have the 380 die, 2 9mm dies and a 38/357 die. So tonight I will go take them all apart and inspect the expanders in each one.

When I started this whole endeavor I received a bunch of these 356-102 bullets from a member to try and experiment with, it was probably a couple hundred, they were all sized to .356 and tumble lubed and I don't recall seeing any of this shaving while I was loading them. So for now I am at a loss as to what to do and kind of at a standstill.

As for the rest. I have been working hard to ignore the Lee Bashers, The suggestion of a "proper die was about as useful as a sand pail and beach shovel in a gravel pit. Still Haven't heard what the "proper die" is.

[kmw1954]

I still use the lee universal expander when I want a bigger flare on the case mouth than the noe will give me. The noe expander will expand the inside of the case so it doesn’t shave or swage down lead bullets..

Lee will make you a larger one also. Just measure your expander and go two to three thousands bigger. On my 38 special wad cutter brass I use noe’s I think it’s .355x .359 or .360 sizer works good for wad cutter bullets.

Unless this will work with the Lee Powder thru Die and an Auto Drum/Disk Measure then it does not serve my purpose on a progressive press.

[Rcmaveric]

I reload on a turret press and a progressive with the Lee 9MM and 380 ACP dies with no issues.

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[Rcmaveric]

One thing i didnt see, i skimmed through to check, are you seating a bullet and crimping in one step?

If so, that's your problem. May still even cause the problem if your arent but didnt set up the die correctly. Put a flared case in and run the ram to its full stroke. Unscrew your seater stem to the max and then screw the seater die in in till you feel it touch the case mouth but doesnt remove the flare. Lock the die down. Remove the empty flared case and insert a dummy round. Now adjust your seater stem to your dummy.

Now try to seat a bullet. It seams most of lees pistol bullet seater dies also crimp. It can close the flare while you are still seating and shave lead. We also you use more flare with cast bullets than you would normally with a jacketed bullet. I always make sure i get a separate die for crimping. Lee FCDs are awesome.

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[kmw1954]

. It can close the flare while you are still seating and shave lead. We also you use more flare with cast bullets than you would normally with a jacketed bullet. I always make sure i get a separate die for crimping. Lee FCDs are awesome.

Seating and Crimping in the same step is not the problem, as previously stated the flair has already been set to as large as it will go, didn't solve the problem. Crimp die set out to the point there was NO CRIMP. also did not solve the issue.

I too have loaded both plated and jacketed bullets with these 380 and 9mm dies I have and have seated and crimped in one step w/o issue.

[Jniedbalski]

My way of doing it with my single stage press works but won’t work with your progressive press and powder through die. Noe use to make the powder through expander but I think now they quit making it. I thank lee will still make you a custom size powder through expander. I checked in to it a few years ago but went with the lee and NOE.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks, but to be clear I am not "New" to reloading. Just new to cast lead bullets.

...SNIP

Since you are not new to reloading, I think it's time for you to do some troubleshooting.
First thing I'd suggest is to separate the seat and crimp operations...just as a test, to see if and when the sliver of lead shows up.

But, you'll still likely have the case swage the boolit down, if you don't get a larger case expander, or maybe use a harder alloy?
Good Luck.

[Jniedbalski]

Yesterday, 04:11 PM #9
Kenstone Kenstone is offline
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"but what is the solution for the Lee Die and Measure?"

This
Unless I missed it, you didn't say what caliber you are loading as yet but I'll guess 9mm.
For bullets in that diameter range you need to use the expander from a 38S&W die.
It's a direct swap into a Lee 9mm PTE die.

https://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html
Hope I did this right. The above post from keystone about using the 38 S&w powder through expander will work. It’s also used for the 38 short and long colt. It’s only 3.00$through lee. If it leaves not enough bullet pull you can always sand it’s diameter down a thousands or two.

[kmw1954]

Since you are not new to reloading, I think it's time for you to do some troubleshooting.
First thing I'd suggest is to separate the seat and crimp operations...just as a test, to see if and when the sliver of lead shows up.

Good Luck.

Already did that.

Also just went up and pulled the expanders from each of the 380, 9mm and 38/357. They are each a different length though the 38/357 has a longer expander the overall length of the expander insert of the 38/357 is much shorter.

Also just checked as I have some of these that are sized and powder coated to .356 and I am not getting the shaving though now I will have to pull one and measure it's diameter to check for swaging.

[Kenstone]

Also just went up and pulled the expanders from each of the 380, 9mm and 38/357. They are each a different length though the 38/357 has a longer expander the overall length of the expander insert of the 38/357 is much shorter.

Also just checked as I have some of these that are sized and powder coated to .356 and I am not getting the shaving though now I will have to pull one and measure it's diameter to check for swaging.

How do the 380 and 9mm expanders compare??
If they are the same length then the 38S&W expander could work in the 380 PTE.
If not, I'm sure it'll work in the 9mm PTE die and that die could possibly work for 380.

[kmw1954]

Kenstone the 380 is the longest and the 38/357 is the shortest in overall length. Yes the 9mm is also shorter than the 380 though the expander/flair look identical. At this point I think I need a bullet sizing die to size these down to .356" and see if that will resolve the problem.

[Camper64]

Just curious if you tried the .357 sized and unsized powder coated ones to see if the shavings happen on those as well?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Already did that.

>>>SNIP

What was the result?
sliver show up during seating?
sliver show up during crimp?
no sliver?

[kmw1954]

Just curious if you tried the .357 sized and unsized powder coated ones to see if the shavings happen on those as well?

No sir, not yet. But with the sized ones it did make me think it was the hardness of the PC that was preventing the shaving which is why I mentioned pulling one apart and measuring the bullet.

JonB am still seeing the shaving from just seating. Right now I have the crimp adjusted so that the case will just tightly seat in the chamber. It will not plunk.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

JonB am still seeing the shaving from just seating. Right now I have the crimp adjusted so that the case will just tightly seat in the chamber. It will not plunk.

that doesn't sound like you have separated the seat and the crimp into two totally different operations...meaning, two different strokes of the ram.

In a single operation (seat/crimp), even if you don't have the crimp set to a actual crimp, but more of a "remove the bell" action, you can still shave the bullet in the last bit of Ram movement.

[kmw1954]

Here is the plan for today.

Will seat one with no crimp and then pull it for inspection.
Will also try one each of the PC, sized bullets that Camper64 so graciously sent me and observe those.

[jcren]

Those boolits must be pretty soft for a 380 case to size them down. Those cases are fragile compared to 9mm.